Aleksi Lilleberg – The Dictator (Satama)

by Milla [she=he]

Aleksi Lilleberg. One of the persons who bullied me. One of the persons with power to bully. No community = No accountability.

I still have fears. Of not being able to speak openly. I guess I’m walking straight towards that goal for some reason. Maybe cause it feels normal. To be like a ‘stupid’ child, with no secrets, and no rules. Just speak and await the shocked reactions or condescending laughs by the ones housebroken by Civilized Culture. I know just how to say the wrong things. Many persons feel hurt by what I say, what I don’t keep to myself.

Like for instance this: Aleksi Lilleberg is the one who started the conflict with my official exclusion from the social center in Helsinki. As the admin of a mailing list related to the social center, she took no notice of the sexist bullying going on. I’ve heard by others that she herself got bullied in school, but I find it hard to believe since she couldn’t relate to what I was going through with constant harsh words. She denied the sexism going on. And pronounced herself ‘dictator’ over the list. Could be that she would use a word like that to express the frustration she had over having all that power/responsibility all by herself, with no community there to guide and support. Maybe she doesn’t work well under stress. Maybe being bullied before gets her affected by a hateful atmosphere, caving in to the peer pressure of the ones speaking violent words. Maybe – maybe – maybe. I don’t know. I don’t know her reasons. I only know how I felt when she said that there was no sexism on the list (I had been told that I was hated because I’m a feminist, and because I speak, and that I should shut up and get laid). She said this wasn’t sexism, but just a bit of bad behavior. At the same time she writes private emails to me asking me if I want to get off the list. And when I say no, and ask her why she said there was no sexism on the list, then she signs me off anyway. Says I have a lack of proportions and mental problems.

And with her signing me off, that was the start of the official exclusion from that place. That was the start of people “knowing” who I am and how I am. People who I don’t know who easily tell strangers that ask about me: “She’s Crazy!”

It’s hard being in the position of living with these feelings years later on. Cause it does take years to get over something as severe as what is happening inside social center Satama.

I’ve made a choice to be in solidarity with my own sanity. There are people hurt by that. People who don’t want their story told on this blog. I guess no one is really interested in having the story about Aleksi burning the juggling balls of a lover, and then grabbing her fingers and bending her arm back until she was in pain. No one but me is interested in having that story, that pain, told in the open. There were more people around witnessing this. There were people witnessing and maybe even recognizing that this was wrong. But no one did anything. The person Aleksi was bullying requested for help, and got a cold shoulder in return.

People remember this happening. Maybe some remember Aleksi saying that hating feminists and wanting them to shut up and get laid has nothing to do with sexism. Maybe some remember being at a meeting where bans in general were to be discussed, and Aleksi aggressively standing up, saying that I’m not allowed to be in the same space. “She or I”.

Aleksi never made any effort to sort out what she did. She gave whatever random excuses, and people were there to support her upset feelings. While I was stuck with years of isolation and struggle. I know where I’m heading. If there’s a crossroads between “Speak” and “Don’t speak” I’m walking straight towards the shocked reactions and condescending laughs. No more silence for me.

Aleksi bullied me.

Anybody in contact with Aleksi, I recommend reading:

EVERYDAY MALE CHAUVINISM.

Stacy & Milla [7:7]

by Milla [she=he]


For further background on this discussion check this post

>> CONFRONTING MISOGYNY >>

In the video I’m talking with Stacy about feminism, my exclusion from the Helsinki social center, and about her saying that I raped a man called Daniel. A man I had a very abusive intimate relation with, and that I would still like to confront on fucked up behavior.

For further background on the fucked behavior read

>> EVERYDAY MALE CHAUVINISM >>

I will write more on this talk later. Below the video is a transcript of what is said.



Milla: I can not really understand like, what is the comparison in this case. —– With persons of color choosing at some anarchist event to aggressively tell the white persons to leave. That I would like to have more of a concrete connection with like, why you would make a connection between that and me speaking my reality and trying to ask for other persons to be accountable for what they do.

Stacy: Because, you are pushing male activists into a corner. That’s … That’s like … That is the point.

Milla: I don’t understand the metaphor, that what is that corner, like what is …

Stacy: A corner where they can not defend themselves. Sexist men do not have friends, in my opinion. If I am proven false, if like, a rapist is a “cool guy”, and all the men who have been mistreating you are accepted in the community then I will say that, you know, I was wrong. But I think that most people will not accept sexism, but if you are pushing them into corners then they become martyrs among men and of course they will defend their brother that is becoming emasculated by rabid feminism.

Milla: By…?

Stacy: Rabid feminism.

Milla: Rabid feminism … But can you explain more specifically what action it is that is pushing these persons into this so called corner?

Stacy: What Dani says is stalking. And Antti has also pointed out things like, putting names in public. Perhaps they feel that it is pushing people to corners. Your tactic is simply wrong with people. People hate you because of your tactic, not because of the content.

Milla: Not because of there being sexism in this society and that we all take part in this system?

Stacy: Now I didn’t understand.

Milla: You say that there are persons that hate me — or you just make a generalization that people hate me – it would be nice if you could name names as well, like of persons who say they hate me … But you said that …

Stacy: 19 feminists wanted to get rid of you.

Milla: Inka who signed that. She has been writing on the forum and explained that she doesn’t agree with what she did, and that she just signed it because it was sent to her, and that she didn’t agree with everything in the statement, even from the beginning. There are other persons that I have been speaking with who had some points where, they sent an email saying that “Okay I disagree with this and this” but still their name ended up on the bottom of the …

Stacy: How about Riikka Kaihovaara, you have put her name up in Hirvitalo, with a picture, and she has never replied on your accusations, and she is, I would say … She has been the editor of Tulva magazine, she is one of the foremost feminists in Finland, and, you know, she is against you. And I think there is another misrepresentation. I started think like Antti and many others that Riikka’s intentions with you were only good. But she doesn’t want to say it to you because she thinks that you are just going to twist her words, whatever she says.

Milla: I published the email contact that we had after, and that was on my initiative in spite of the despair and the hurt I was going through. I tried to talk with her in a reasonable way, this part is not published on the blog with her …

<< Stacy & Milla [6:7]

Stacy & Milla [6:7]

by Milla [she=he]


For further background on this discussion check this post

>> CONFRONTING MISOGYNY >>

In the video I’m talking with Stacy about feminism, my exclusion from the Helsinki social center, and about her saying that I raped a man called Daniel. A man I had a very abusive intimate relation with, and that I would still like to confront on fucked up behavior.

For further background on the fucked behavior read

>> EVERYDAY MALE CHAUVINISM >>

I will write more on this talk later. Below the video is a transcript of what is said.

Milla: Anyhow, I think my main point is that the stuff that you said, is not just words it’s something that affects and it’s also fitting into a political system, and I, yeah … and therefor, when you’re talking about me distancing myself from certain persons or scenes, then … that I see that this is what I’m doing right now when I am distancing myself from you as a friend, because I can not deal with how you relate to this issue.

Stacy: So, what would you have done in my position? Just play that, you know, “Milla is cool” and “Daniel is cool” and they are on each others throats.

Milla: How I would see a situation like this?

Stacy: Yeah. Would you be in my position accepting that, you know, well I have two friends and they are just tearing each other apart? And just like, ignoring this conflict at all, you know? Like I did for a very long time, I tried to ignore that.

Milla: The way I would have dealt with it, especially if there is like, a clear power relation going on, if there is an issue of certain positions of privilege and oppression that are systematic, structural — like me being born as a woman, and Dani as a man and then when we relate to each other in an intimate relation and I try to point out abusive behaviors to this person and this person is avoiding it then I think from my point of view, it would have been fairly clear that I would support the woman in this case, and I wouldn’t treat these persons as like having equal power relation, or even start blaming the woman in this case. I mean it’s the same thing as watching a scene where there is police brutality going on and then treating these persons as “Well – you the person who was demonstrating, and you the person in the uniform with the stick beating the other person up that – I will now sit and mediate between you two, and I will treat you as, like, having equal power in this relation” And that’s not true, and the same goes for an intimate relation where a man and a woman is involved, and I feel that you are really belittling the violence, the rapes, the killings that are going on continuously, when you say that a woman’s slap by a man, you know, that because of this they build up this rage and hatred of women – It is not true, I find it really … it’s really a problematic way of thinking.

Stacy: You brought out a very important point in this discussion. Why should I always believe that women are honest? Why should I always even believe that the activist version of events is the truth and not the police version? Just like that? I have brought out that, you know, some of the rape charges are false, and would it not be for a woman a very easy way to use power against men to lie about stories of abuse? Why should I just blatantly accept your version as the sole truth, especially when I find difficulties with your stories?

Milla: I would say that one major reason to believe when they step out and speak about sexualized abuse is that, women who talk about it, they don’t get any reward, they don’t get any fame, they don’t get into a power position, instead there is usually a lot of blame and protection of the man’s reality, and the man’s story in this case.

Stacy: I think I disagree about that, I think many people are protective of the woman. I could see it with the Ladyfest where there was rape, everybody, including me, were immediately protecting the woman, never hearing the story of the man. And I still stand by that. I have never questioned it. And, also, I wanted to point out that the Pittsburgh CrimeThink case where there were legitimate concerns about race and anarchist people of color came in to CrimeThink convergence and started throwing people’s bags out of the house, and telling the white people to leave America and stuff like that. I really saw that you are the same kind of distractor, even though you have a point, and they had a point, then that was totally false, and few people of color joined them because they thought that “Hey, those folks are really cutting edge radicals here”. But later they saw that, you know, that they hadn’t really thought out things. So I thought, is my relationship to your feminism that I brainlessly think that, you know, you are the cutting edge most radical feminist and like I should follow you in all questions. No, I started to think on my own.

Milla: I don’t really understand the comparison, because I am not … I think that, from my point of view, I try to point out sexist thinking and sexist behavior, and I would say that you are supporting the same structures. I am not telling people to “Go to your own little island somewhere”, I can tell people who I’ve chosen to try to build a friendship with, that I would not wish to have that anymore, because I find it oppressive, and … but, I don’t see anything wrong in confronting power. I don’t see anything wrong in speaking my reality. And leaving other person… like, leaving it possible for the other persons to confront that. It’s perfectly open to do that on the blog for instance.

<< Stacy & Milla [5:7] …    Stacy & Milla [7:7] >>

Stacy & Milla [5:7]

by Milla [she=he]


For further background on this discussion check this post

>> CONFRONTING MISOGYNY >>

In the video I’m talking with Stacy about feminism, my exclusion from the Helsinki social center, and about her saying that I raped a man called Daniel. A man I had a very abusive intimate relation with, and that I would still like to confront on fucked up behavior.

For further background on the fucked behavior read

>> EVERYDAY MALE CHAUVINISM >>

I will write more on this talk later. Below the video is a transcript of what is said.

Stacy: I want the same treatment with you also, I want that you break off relationships that are harmful for yourself. I realized when Dani had one person … relationship with one person that had a borderline personality disorder, and then one with bulimia, and then he’s borderline personality disordered himself. So, he is looking for a some kind of a therapist and I think you are looking for one too, and having a relationship is not the way to go, and hanging in circles like these is also not a way to go. I think you need time to be alone, and forget about this life, start a new life altogether, because I think you are hanging in a pattern that is like self-destructive. It might even be that you are seeing here the same people that have banned you from the social center. I mean, you are going through the trauma over and over again. I have been through that myself. And I have started a new life.

Milla: Like I said before, that I don’t feel like I’m being seen by you in this conflict and that you just take random information that you get and then it’s not really … You said that you’re on a quest for truth and that you want to like, really find out things but instead you take information and then you just create a whole world around that piece of information and when you’re saying that, for instance, that from your point of view, it would be okay if I confront Dani if Dani has had a reasonable amount of time to prove herself if she is going to do something about her behavior or not, and this you say without looking at the interaction that I’ve had with this person for over a year. This is a very long time for two persons to interact and many different things going on, so, it’s without relating or knowing this story, you make up certain ideas of what is the right thing to do at what moment. So I would definitely recommend you to – if you really want to mediate – or help out people, which is what you are expressing, you’re saying that your intentions are good, and that you wish well for the persons and then I think you should really look at like how to, you know – read material – on how to be sensitive in a conflict. You’re saying that you want to make peace with me, but I feel that you’re kind of twisting and turning your stand on this. Because in writing it comes out in a really mean way, and now you’re a little bit more diplomatic and then you turn it here and there. Because either I am a feminist or I am about man-hatred, I mean these things are not just things … I mean, I did not say that the stuff that you’ve been writing is misogynist, I did not say that as an attacking word, I’m saying it because there’s something fundamentally seriously not okay with the stuff that you’ve been writing. And this can be pointed out by other feminists, who are aware of these power structures. So that’s why I’ve been really hurt by the stuff, because it’s been an addition of what Dani has already done to me, and that’s also a part of a way to dominate and to get control over the situation, that Dani decides when there’s gonna be a confrontation, and how it’s going to be, or even if, and I think that that’s really wrong. That if I’ve done something wrong, then I don’t have the right to decide like, when is the right moment for me, when I feel emotionally capable of dealing with when I’ve been hurting another human being. That’s up to the up to the other person …

Stacy: Has he done wrong? I mean, willfully purposefully hurting people. Have you … You have had abusive relationships where you have been abusive and you have been using abusive language … Do you have purpose to harm people? I do not think so. You do a certain type of behavior, because you are traumatized or disturbed, I think it is the same thing with Dani. He is not only making mistakes but he is repeating them, I think he is feeling awful about it. He’s in a crazy vortex of doing wrong and he can not get out it. And the same is with you.

Milla: And I would say that you have really disturbing behaviors that you put openly on display and that you really should deal with.

Stacy: Well, I have said that I am a narcissist. And I can not really change my behavior even though I am very willing to do it, but I … that will be my basic nature, and if it is true that he has … Dani has a borderline personality disorder that is then a lifetime matter. It is many years of therapy and like, self-seeking … I don’t know what. But from my perspective I understand that he can not break his abusive patterns just like that.

Milla: I’m not expecting it to be like that either. I’m expecting some kind of community where people actually care about these issues and do not blame the women who are ending up in emotional and psychological, and whatever kind of hellish mindsets and … to just like “That’s your personal problem, you deal with it alone” and “Let’s make a lot of apologies for this poor man who doesn’t have any kind of control over her behavior”. I don’t think that that’s the right way to deal with issues, I think it’s really important to hear the person who is talking about the hurt. And then try to think about “Okay, how do we fix this as a community?” And you’re not taking community responsibility now, you’re just acting out of your own beliefs and as an individual and then you’re trying to kind of impose your ideas. But this is how the scene is working in general. There are no structures for how to deal with intimate violence. And it’s always seen as a “not a scene issue” but as persons’ like private matter, and that’s what I think is wrong. Because I don’t think it’s cool that there can be, you know, spaces like this for instance … also like you said, that there are persons here who are involved with the exclusion that I faced in the social center, and yes, it is not comforting for me to be in a space that is supposed to be political and at the same time I feel that, if I would address this issue here, then once again I would be put out there as a problematic person disturbing the important agenda that we have here.

<< Stacy & Milla [4:7] …    Stacy & Milla [6:7] >>

Stacy & Milla [4:7]

by Milla [she=he]


For further background on this discussion check this post

>> CONFRONTING MISOGYNY >>

In the video I’m talking with Stacy about feminism, my exclusion from the Helsinki social center, and about her saying that I raped a man called Daniel. A man I had a very abusive intimate relation with, and that I would still like to confront on fucked up behavior.

For further background on the fucked behavior read

>> EVERYDAY MALE CHAUVINISM >>

I will write more on this talk later. Below the video is a transcript of what is said.

Milla: So, as I understand it, what you don’t want is women who confront men on abusive behavior. I … What was it? Yeah. Cause you were saying – back to the other point – cause you were saying you don’t understand why Taru would say such a thing that I wouldn’t be allowed to talk about feminism – “why my type of feminism” – at the same time you have expressed that I have a rabid misandry which is an aggressive man-hatred, that’s how you describe my feminism, and I would like to understand … I mean in a sense … I feel really weirded out and that it’s completely insane to have this conversation because I can not identify with this whatsoever. But, yeah, it would be interesting to hear what specific things, in my doings or sayings, that is related to hatred, expressing a hatred and abuse towards men.

Stacy: You belong to a group called, I think, “We are not the fun kin of feminists” and I …

Milla: You’re talking about a Facebook group.

Stacy: Yes, and it listed many many things from radical feminists, and those really make my skin crawl. Those people are really man-haters, so you are identifying with a group that is really aggressive, and like them … They also have a strategy or a tactic that does not lead anywhere. And I really started to understand why people think, or laugh at “ha ha – feminists are just lesbians” because those kinds of feminists have so very little understanding to the position male people are having. —— That’s my point. Please understand where he is standing a little bit. Try to be forgiving.

Milla: Okay, ehm … I guess that is was a request and not a demand, or a personal point of view that you were expressing before, when you said that you would wish for me to leave Dani alone, and I could say as I said before that I disagree with this, I feel that I have a right to confront and to get support in confronting this person. You are also saying that this person should not engage in intimate relations until she’s actually worked through the issues that I’m trying to point out continuously. And this is something that I also agree with, cause it’s clear to me that if she can not be confronted with what I say, then it’s not okay for her to continue doing the same thing with more women. But I can not agree with you on not following through this whole process that I’m going through, with other persons involved intimately with Dani, with persons like the mens’ separatist group in Budapest, that I still haven’t gotten a clear answer from, what kind of structures they have with a woman like myself who would like to confront a person involved in their activities. So it’s nothing that I can say … I can only say that, yeah, I won’t … cause I stopped drinking, and I won’t write like, misdirected aggressive messages to this person anymore, that my anger can come out in more constructive ways. Also that you said that you took it upon yourself to mediate, and I think that in order to mediate, to actually have that position, it’s important to ask the persons involved if they want to have that mediation happen, so I don’t find your role in this as mediation but more you as a person like getting into an emotional state and then, kind of just expressing your feelings of, I guess, disbelief and things like that, because as I see it you’ve met both Dani and myself and then you have your perspective on how we function and how we are and then when there are very different realities being spoken then you have, I guess you’re in a position where you don’t really know what’s going on. So, I don’t see you as an impartial or neutral person in this I also see you as a person taking part in a conflict and even pushing it to other levels. I can understand that Dani did not appreciate that you kind of leaked information, or like, put those sentences there, because then it became apparent to me how, exactly how manipulative this person is, and how and how nasty it is that I can not confront her about this behavior. So from my point of view I can not see any kind of good will action in what you did, and there are already groups that function according to certain structures in order to give support for instance, one basic thing is to ask the person you want to support, how they would like to be supported, so either Dani, or me, but not just to jump in and say that “okay, this is how things are, and therefor you should do this and you should do that” but this is not mediation this is kind of putting yourself in the center of it instead of seeing … the other persons that are there. That’s from my perspective what’s going on with this conflict and your role in it.

Stacy: Okay, I can accept that. The only request Dani wanted me to relate to you is that you should leave him the fuck alone. That’s what he said.

Milla: Yeah, I’ve heard that on other occasions as well, but many different ideas of how things should go, so …

Stacy: And I would really do that, but if he doesn’t change within a reasonable period of time you could start asking him or confront him, about his slow progress. You know, anarchy relies on trusting people. I don’t think you are trusting him with his personal process at all.

Milla: I think, from my perspective, that I feel like I’m not being seen as a person as an emotional being in this. I feel I’ve been really disrespected by the things that you’ve been saying and doing and that has been really hurtful and insensitive, and that this kind of process that you feel that Dani should have, that you’re not allowing me that same thing, because you see me to be in a privileged position in relation to Dani. Dani who has the harmful sexist behavior that then has affected me in a certain way. And then when I break free from it and all kinds of emotional reactions and whatnot come out of me then I am the bad person who should not push Dani into a corner by saying like “Shit, I’m so upset by all this kind of injustice, and disrespect that I was exposed to, and I want to be able to talk with this person about it” especially when Dani is calling herself a feminist to other women, and at the same time telling me that I can not confront her on those issues because she “doesn’t label” herself.

<< Stacy & Milla [3:7] …    Stacy & Milla [5:7] >>

Stacy & Milla [3:7]

by Milla [she=he]

For further background on this discussion check this post

>> CONFRONTING MISOGYNY >>

In the video I’m talking with Stacy about feminism, my exclusion from the Helsinki social center, and about her saying that I raped a man called Daniel. A man I had a very abusive intimate relation with, and that I would still like to confront on fucked up behavior.

For further background on the fucked behavior read

>> EVERYDAY MALE CHAUVINISM >>

I will write more on this talk later. Below the video is a transcript of what is said.

Milla: I’ve also done a naked demonstration where two persons told me that I had two choices, either I walk out myself or they will drag me out, and they did. They started dragging me out of the house. And also that three times I was standing outside a house meeting, very politely waiting for all the other important agenda points to go through, so that I could go in. And all the time being blocked, also by Taru, who said that she was really working on this issue. She’s been lying a lot about how the conflict resolution process has been going, so when you say that I have privilege in this case, I would say that maybe you’re talking from your own point of view, and how you’ve been taking in what I have said before, but you can’t speak for the larger group, or larger community in that sense, because I as a person bringing in these issues, and continuing talking about it, can not say that I’ve been supported, or that people have been willing to sit down and like, in a civilized way, hear me out and then try to do something constructive about it. So that is not true from my point of view. That I have privilege in this case.

Stacy: Well, yeah, not with the people in general but I think with male activists, you have a privilege. But let me correct one thing, Dani has been open and admitting about all the sexist acts that he has done, that is one thing that I count for his favor.

Milla: You can talk from your perspective again, that you have in a non-transparent way communicated with Dani, and a part of this communication came out on my Facebook wall where you said that I had raped Dani and that I should stop stalking Dani. And then you were saying as well that Dani says that we’ve been talking about this. So the communication that you have been having with Dani, in private, is not something that I’ve been taking part of, so the things that you say that Dani admits to, is very strange to me, when it’s kind of apparent and out in the open that this person has been lying to you and that you have passed on these lies. So, I can’t agree with this perspective either.

Stacy: Dani does not want to have anything to do with you any longer. He doesn’t even want me to be the middle woman, between him and you. It was already going against his will, to publish that little caption, that I did about the coercion that I called — falsely — rape. And for you I recommend, really, just to stay out the social center scene, far away. Because I think those people are pathological. I think I’m pulling off myself, yeah some good times but, it the heck isn’t worth it. You know, I have been talking with Ulla and with Hannu and so forth, and I think Hannu has very much sense in what he is saying. And it’s hard for me to convince you but I have been in a way, thinking your best in this issue.

Milla: Yeah, you can not really convince me about that, because it’s not what I felt throughout the whole process that lasted for a month of different threads on the internet, and as I said, before we started filming, and I think in the beginning as well that, it’s been very abusive the language you’ve been having and very labeling. And it’s not a sensitive way of dealing with it for a person who’s been in my position. I can still not understand why you are saying that it is a lie that’s proven when I say that Taru told me together with two other women, that I would be welcome to a demonstration, that should be open for everyone, but I was told that I would be welcome and that I could go to a party afterwards as long as I did not talk about feminism. This was said to me clearly.

Stacy: I should probably consult Pähkinä about this, because apparently … I have hard time understanding why she would make such a statement. You know, why only you should not talk about feminism, but for instance I could talk about feminism. But, what is bad in your special way of dealing with feminism, and I know what it is, it’s pushing people into corners, it is aggressive – I do not care about it, if it is aggressive – but it is a bad tactic. In my opinion. It doesn’t lead anywhere, Dani is not becoming a better person if you keep, as he says, stalking him. He just becomes more pissed off. And I remember the first time Dani came to my apartment, he wrote in his blog how he went to downtown Helsinki and he was actively defending a woman, that was being chased. How could a man like he is, have a change of mind and become a brutal sexist and misogynist just like that.

Milla: It was me who got us involved in that situation. It was a man who was shouting outside a bar, or being aggressively loud towards a woman, and then after a while the man was hitting her, so we crossed the street because … I took the initiative to that, I usually do that in that area in Kallio, where there is a lot of open abuse of women, especially partners, and then Dani was kind of tagging along, and we talked about the situation afterwards, and then Dani was talking about other violent situations where there has been men involved, so Dani didn’t see a gender perspective on this, at all, in that situation, when we talked about it afterwards, so there’s not really that awareness in Dani about these issues.

Stacy: I wonder if I do have that perspective either or if you have that perspective because I think … I have also written that you have an alcoholic type of personality, and that you are seen as such a person, as a bar brawler, and I see women starting a fight and slapping at men all the time in bars, and what should a man do, should he just swallow all the abuse that comes from women, and the anger builds up, you know, men get slapped all the time, and the anger builds up, and then one day he’s gonna retaliate on some innocent woman that is not going to slap back. That is the exact point that I have been trying to make. The violence, male violence and sexism doesn’t go away by driving men into corners. That is a destructive tactic that you have chosen.

<< Stacy & Milla [2:7] …    Stacy & Milla [4:7] >>

Stacy & Milla [2:7]

by Milla [she=he]

For further background on this discussion check this post

>> CONFRONTING MISOGYNY >>

In the video I’m talking with Stacy about feminism, my exclusion from the Helsinki social center, and about her saying that I raped a man called Daniel. A man I had a very abusive intimate relation with, and that I would still like to confront on fucked up behavior.

For further background on the fucked behavior read

>> EVERYDAY MALE CHAUVINISM >>

I will write more on this talk later. Below the video is a transcript of what is said.

Milla: The only thing we talked about was that I tried to kiss Dani with an open mouth. We were fully clothed, I never made any attempts or made any coercion towards having intercourse with this person. And I find that so hardcore … I don’t know, just breaking down as a human being, when I try to talk about really sexually abusive behavior where this person has you know, asked to strangle a woman, when she’s drunk, and then having sex with her, and this woman does not remember it afterwards. I’m not saying that I’m an angel myself, that I’ve also been completely drunk and having sex with people, and there has not been like, real consent, or things like that, but it’s like, just getting a perspective on things that I don’t have a repetitive abusive behavior, or coercive behavior in the same way as Dani has. And I’m not refusing to talk about it either. So there is a difference there. And plus this thing that you’re saying that, I have a rabid misandry, that I am manipulative, that I have a lack of seductive skills, that I have … I mean, it’s just been a list of insults basically, that you have not made any point to prove to be true, in a sense, it’s just gone on a personal level, and with this you have no understanding whatsoever why I would, you know, just be fed up with the situation where I try to deal with something that I find really oppressive on a personal level, for a longer time, and then you come and you add on top of that, and then that you ask me to be caring, giving, understanding, and saying that I as a person born with female genitals, have privilege in this situation, that I’m going through, which is hardcore not true, and you are proving that point openly, when you are with really misogynist statements, protecting a man from getting confronted. But yeah, the first points about … I still stand by the fact that I was told not to speak about feminism in the social center.

Stacy: Can I talk? Well, it seems that you are changing it all the time, because now it seems that it is your way of … it is your brand of feminism that is not accepted there, and I can very well understand that. Because I do not see it leading to any real results with Dani because, I think it is more like an emotional, mental problem that he has to go through with himself. As to the false charge of you raping Dani, it is there for me to apologise, but you admit to being coercive towards him, and you have admitted to being abusive in relationships, as you just said. I do not know about that repetitive pattern with Dani versus with you, I do not have such a scope for things. And, I think, I profoundly think that you have a privilege over Dani, because he’s male, and if he says that, you know, “Milla is crazy” or “Milla is wrong” that totally proves that he is indeed a sexist, and he is using his male power, privilege, and therefor I would tread really gently on cornering males. I see it as a tactical issue only, I do not think male sexists are cool anywhere, not in prisons, not anywhere else, so I do not really get your point that they get so much support, because Dani is not cool with social center folks either, they are not patting his back for him being sexist. What else?

Milla: Can I add?

Stacy: Yeah.

Milla: That I still haven’t gotten a clear idea. You’re saying that the situation that I described, that Taru plus two other women, came over to my house, Pähkinä was there as a witness, and that I was told that I was welcome to participate in a demonstration, and go to the party afterwards, as long as I did not talk about feminism, this is something that I describe as a factual thing that happened, and you have told now that it’s proven that this is not true, so I would like to understand how come …

Stacy: You have said differently, like you now even said that you know, first that you are creating such and such an atmosphere, at first, and then it was about feminism. I connect those two together. Your kind of dealing with feminism, creates an uneasy atmosphere. I can understand it, for males, it creates an uneasy atmosphere, because they feel cornered. Pushed in corners. And the usual reaction with males in that situation is violence. Not against you, because you are privileged, people are discussing with you, that’s great, but probably with someone else. You are seen as a strong person, they take violence on someone else. The same with me, I’m a strong person, people are pleasing with me, they take violence on someone else.

Milla: Okay. I can say that you are talking with me now, but you’ve had a really abusive way of discussing issues, saying that I am in a certain way, instead of asking me about things, and I could mention several cases where it’s not been possible for me to speak with people. You’re telling me that people are willing to talk with me and that is exactly the issue that I have with the social center, for instance, where you’ve went with me to the social center, and we were dragged outside, so I can talk – you know, it’s like the communication police or something, you can have a conversation there for a while, but it doesn’t really lead to anything in the end, I can’t confront the people who are responsible for pushing me outside, and I can’t confront the abuse that they’ve put me through. So you’re saying that people are like, civilized with me, while in fact you were also pulled by Markus, trying to drag us out, and you had a finger in your face, where the guy like, I think the guy is taller than you, and saying like “Shut the fuck up!” I don’t think that that’s kind of … you know, that people are willing to discuss things.

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