by Milla — she=he
“What you feed will grow”: Narcissists, Trolls, Females, Therapists .. Labeling, Stereotype stories, Role-play and .. Imagination
I took Jay’s response and chose this space to express what i got out of it. In green what I understand of the actual words. And in brown the questions, thoughts, and feelings that arise in me, when reading:
jay: “Done research and clearly this is the pattern for you. And I played it out with you. Several people also contacted me and confirmed this–from their own personal experience and/or that of friends of theirs. It still did not help the way I felt.”
jay has asked some persons of their opinion? googled my name? and noticed some behavior/action that i’ve repeated? jay considers to have participated in the behavior repeated? a number of persons that jay would define as ‘several’ (which i estimate to be more than 2 less than 10?) have contacted jay and said that i have repeated a behavior/action either with them or with their friends? this interaction and exchange with other people, does not affect what jay felt?
i’m wondering if my opinion would be valid in the research conducted by jay? or if any opinions from sources recommended by me would be welcome? i’m also wondering what “this” is a reference to, as well as what this “it” is that jay considers to have “played out” with me? i am wondering how many people are ‘several’ and what it is they have confirmed? i am wondering what feelings jay are talking about, in relation to what?
jay: “What you’ve done is unconscionable. Worst part is you don’t/can’t care. (My guess is you’ll privately and publicly register this as projection, perhaps some sort of power play.)”
i’ve done something that jay experiences some strong negative feelings in relation to? and the thought of me not caring increases the intensity of these feelings? jay guesses that i will say that this is projection, and maybe some power play on jay’s part to express this?
i’m wondering what behavior/action jay is referring to? and i’m wondering what behavior/action that jay interprets as not caring, and i also wonder what action/behavior would be received as caring by jay?
to respond to the guess: i don’t know what would be projection and what would be power play — if i understood what jay was talking about then i would be able to say if i agreed with this guess or not. now i’m just confused, and wondering if jay really thinks i should/would/could understand what it is that jay is talking about, when this “this” and “it” and “pattern” is not described any further? i’m wondering if jay thinks this is efficient and clear communication?
jay: “In our exchanges, I experienced from you traits of narcissism, sociopathy, BPD, and various psychotic disorders. Female friends, as well as my own female therapist, have read all the correspondence and other blog entries of yours and used the same words and more. (My guess is you’ll register this as my having brainwashed them and/or that they are all feminist patriarchs.) Regardless, I don’t–I can’t take–such things lightly.”
when jay has been interacting with me online, there has been text and actions, received in a negative way by jay, and jay has interpreted the text and actions as a display of various psychotic disorders? jay has shared the correspondence between jay and i with jay’s therapist who is female – and with some of jay’s friends who are female – and they have also read some blog posts that i’ve written and have described my writing with words categorizing various psychotic disorders? jay is guessing that i think that jay has brainwashed/influenced them and/or that they interpret my self-expression and concerns in favor of a patriarchal order? no matter what i might think, jay can not take behavior that can be interpreted by jay and other (only female?) persons as various psychotic disorders with ease?
what is the thing/action/behavior that jay is reacting on? what is the thing/action/behavior causing discomfort in jay? how come jay describes/interprets the behavior/action with words categorizing mental ‘disorders’? why is jay pointing out that the therapist is female? and that the friends are female? what does jay mean by “such things” in the sentence that reads: “Regardless, I don’t–I can’t take–such things lightly.”?
to respond to jay’s guess of my thinking about jay and jay’s friends and therapist: i do not know what jay’s friends or therapist are like, or what it is they interpret as psychotic disorders in my writing. i do not believe that jay has brainwashed them. i do believe that the action of labeling the actions of someone trying to address sexism, as them having ‘psychotic disorders’ is a fairly common and very effective way of deflecting attention from — and often in effect silence — the concerns of this person and that this serves the patriarchal order. i don’t know if this is done intentionally or not by jay and jay’s friends so i wouldn’t say that i can say anything about ‘brainwash’ or ‘feminist patriarchs’.
jay: “For my own safety (and that of some friends of mine), I will be blocking you from my page.”
jay fears for the safety of jay and some of jay’s friends, and has decided to block me from jay’s facebook page as a means to protect jay and some of jay’s friends?
what is it that jay imagines could happen? what is the worst case scenario? what is jay and jay’s friends safe from by blocking me from jay’s facebook page? could jay imagine other ways of creating safety?
jay: “I am indeed sorry for your sadness and for my initially defensive response. Whatever I believe you did or didn’t to to me doesn’t take away whatever my part was–for that, I apologize. (My guess is this will mean nothing to you, as all you will register is rejection, condescension and contempt.)”
jay empathizes with the sadness i’ve experienced in relation to jay’s behavior, and says that jay started off by responding to my writing in a defensive manner? jay is not sure of what has happened in our interaction, but recognizes that jay participated in the interaction, and would like to take responsibility for some of the communication not working well? jay is guessing that jay saying this, will have no meaning to me, and that i will read jay’s statement as rejection, condescension and contempt?
my response to jay’s guess: it is a challenge reading this whole statement by jay. i usually feel really uncomfortable when people speak of negative feelings but are not specifying behavior (with specifying i mean saying what specific action triggered the feeling/need) and as a feminist (and woman) i fairly often get to hear “crazy” in a silencing manner, by people who are not interested in discussing the sexism (or any other -‘isms’) i’m trying to address — so i do feel disheartened, as well as a bit amused when i in jay’s response read a variety of “psychiatric disorders” and as well the confirmation given by therapist and friends (!) and when i read this i somehow doubt that there will ever be a willingness on jay’s behalf (or jay’s therapist’s and friends’ behalf) to discuss the sexist implications these statements have, and i have strong doubts of receiving any further specification of what behavior of mine fits into these various categories and why it’s important to label the behavior in this way. i hear the “crazy card” being pulled and laid on the table as a big “NO” to the sexism discussion – according to my understanding of how this game is played, the voices and ‘crazy-making’ by many ‘females’ can block out the concerns of ‘only’ one ‘female’. If I say ‘sexism’ and the others say ‘mentally ill’ (or ‘incomprehensible/difficult/erratic/non-normative behavior’) then it’s decided by a majority that it just ain’t the ‘proper’ or ‘right’ time — ‘right’ place — ‘right’ people for having that discussion on sexism. That’s usually how it goes in the stereotype stories we’re assigned role-playing parts in.
in a sense i agree with jay’s guess of my experiencing the response as ‘rejection’. jay saying that there’s recognition for the sadness i experience in relation to defensive response is not enough for me to think that “wow, now i really feel we are connecting here, i know jay can, or wants to ‘get’ what i’m going through”. i don’t know if i would agree with hearing the statements as ‘condescending’ and ‘contempt’ because i’m convinced that jay really speaks out of something that is very real to jay. [the idea that someone would express fear and say that they experience someone else’s behaviors as psychotic disorders for any other reason than that this is ‘real’ to them, is as strange to me as if i would say that i experience sexism in the conversation for any other reason than that this is ‘real’ to me] so i believe that jay really experiences reading my writing as the thoughts and feelings of a person with mental disorders, and that the fear and anxiety that jay experiences in relation to that is real and visceral and that jay really feels a strong need to protect jay and jay’s friends from my presence.
what i can agree to, is that i’m reading these words from jay as a ‘rejection’ of my perspective and actions as valid and ‘sane’ from jay’s point of view. condescension and contempt i would only experience from the text if i believed jay would see my view as valid/sane, but in spite of this, choose to ignore dialogue.
something (unspecified) was said, something (unspecified) was done — jay reacts with strong feelings on this something — and all of a sudden i’m said to have ‘disorders’ and any discussion on what happened is out the window and out from the social networking site called facebook.
i believe that jay is living with some strong images having a powerful impact on how jay experiences our interaction. i believe that jay is doing what jay at this moment sees as the reasonable thing to do, according to jay’s understanding of reality, and in relation to what jay imagines would happen if we talked this through.
jay: “You did indeed remind me that ‘what you feed will grow’. Again, thanks for that.
I genuinely wish you only the best–safety, stability, enlightenment, peace, love, all that good stuff–but I wish it away from me.
Please send me no more correspondence.”
jay genuinely wishes me the best — safety, stability, enlightenment, peace, love and more — and can not at the moment see any common strategies for us to coexist in way that would make this real for both of us? jay doesn’t want to talk about this any further?
this is where i am a naive believer: i think if someone believes these things are possible (safety, enlightenment, peace, love and more) then it should be very possible to sit back, and relax, and think how this would be possible to make happen in a talk with one another. what concrete actions would create this kind of atmosphere?
saying: “i and a lot of others experience you and your behavior/thoughts/feelings as ‘disordered’ so i won’t talk of the concerns you have in relation to my behavior towards you, with you — i wish you the best, away from any space i inhabit” is not enough. saying no to a talk based on what i’ve heard so far, (“protecting oneself from insanity”) i take as an expression of lack of imagination.
Filed under: > Milla & The Ban |