It’s All Love (The Jackal Show)

by Milla — she=he

I’m doing some work on myself as usual. Reading up on racism. Learning NVC-nonviolent communication. I posted a self-empathy exercise that I was doing with a friend. We didn’t work through the whole thing though. So I decided to put my “Jackal Show” on this blog, and see if I can find someone who would be willing to work on it with me, here.

As a first step I’m posting the first part of the self-empathy exercise – The Jackal Show – the way it looks like unprocessed and raw 🙂

2. The Jackal Show: Just start writing. Don’t watch your words or try to “be nice”. Just
let it flow. This is called the Jackal Show. You can write all about what ‘they’ have
done to you, what they have created, what they’ve destroyed. You can express all your
pain and anguish, your fears and outrage, your judgments, thoughts, analysis of the
situation and whatever else comes to mind. Do this until you have nothing left to say.”

After ending up in conflict on an NVC practicing list, this is what went on in me:

.

I hate that stuck up ignorant asshole, A. Judge – I mean the name says it all – the guidelines for the forum is a mess and the people on it are sheep. There’s no fairness or justice. One ignorant dictator saying one thing as the truth not having to prove anything.

The people on the list are unaware of their judgmental attitude. And that there is judgmental guilt tripping going on. And that it’s said over and over again “Are you aware that the guy is losing money” as if I’m some “case” “benefiting” and “ungrateful” not “valuing” this self-righteous Dick head enough.

As if I would have anything to learn from that Stupid, lying, manipulative Male Chauvinist.

Liar! Liar!

Completely ignoring me and then trying to force intimacy as if I’m breaking some “RULE” by not feeling okay, having to FIGHT to be heard in order to get my needs met.

Scared little shit!

I have a need for LEARNING and I can’t do that without reciprocity.

The guy is INSANE and I’m asked to deal with it as if it’s “normal” as if I have no pain as if my pain is not real as if it’s a burden.

I’m tired of having to be a “grown-up”. I just want to scream and scream and scream.

Cause they are not going to change. They will not make the effort.

..

Click this to continue: Once More, With Feeling

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15 Responses

  1. Congratulations, Milla! I can see you’ve got ‘the Jackal Show’ part off to a ‘t’!

    My first tip, which Netiquette prevents me from capitalising is: _Never_ reveal _any_ part of your jackal show to whoever is the stimulus for it.

    The mafia supposedly have a saying, which I modify slightly: ‘Revenge — and any other expression of emotion — is a dish best served cold.’

    As you know, Marshall Rosenberg says: ‘As long as you have an enemy image in your head, your objective will be hard to accomplish.’

    (I believe) somebody else developed it to this kind of form:

    Whenever I am angry inevitably three things are true:
    ‘1) I am wanting/needing VERY much something I am not getting.
    2) I am telling myself that someone or some group SHOULD be giving me that
    something.
    3) More of, or at least some of, my attention and efforts are going focused
    on what’s wrong with that person than on what I’m needing.
    4) I am — as long as I keep my attention there — likely to think or speak or act
    and in a manner that will greatly reduce the chance that that person will be
    motivated to give me what I am wanting.’

    Call me pedantic, but I make that four things!

    (Did you read that post? It may be relevant to you. For full context, email me.)

    I’m hopeful when I see you’ve already started to transform some of your jackal show into needs and feelings:

    ‘I have a need for LEARNING and I can’t do that without reciprocity.’

    Your need/desire is for learning, and reciprocity, which is probably based on trust, agreed?

    ‘The guy is INSANE and I’m asked to deal with it as if it’s “normal” as if I have no pain as if my pain is not real as if it’s a burden.’

    You have a great deal of pain? Are you wanting recognition of your serious and extensive pain, Milla?

    I’m tired of having to be a “grown-up”. I just want to scream and scream and scream.’

    You’re very tired of trying to gain understanding from others, and very, very frustrated consequently? From banging your head against a brick wall? 🙂

    ‘Cause they are not going to change.’

    Change is what you would like, right ? (i.e. you ‘need’, or desire change?)

    Now please go and complete the exercise, Milla

    http://www.theexercise.org

    then go out and have a walk in the park, or somewhere else pleasant, and ‘sniff the flowers’. Take a bit of time out, and nurture your soul. It’s allowed!

    Then, please tell me the results of doing the exercise.

    For more on NVC (Nonviolent Communication) – see http://www.cnvc.org. (I myself have no kind of official affiliation or accreditation)

    • by Milla

      hello fremath,


      My first tip, which Netiquette prevents me from capitalising is: _Never_ reveal _any_ part of your jackal show to whoever is the stimulus for it.

      The mafia supposedly have a saying, which I modify slightly: ‘Revenge — and any other expression of emotion — is a dish best served cold.’

      it makes sense not to pour a lot of –“you are this and that! and you should this and that!”– on anybody. and especially on people who’ve never heard of ‘jackalling’ and ‘putting the giraffe ears on’ :p

      i also understand that when the other party is not aware of nvc it is easier to let them speak first and hear their needs out, to create that space where there’s a trustful non-threatening connection, where it’s then possible to speak of own feelings and needs, and actually be heard out.

      but if it’s for the purpose of practicing, i don’t see any reason for why i wouldn’t put it all out in the open. this is all related to what i’ve felt in relation to an nvc practicing list. so i’m assuming that there’s some understanding for this type of process and that the above is about me and not “them”.

      or about me and how i feel in interaction with “them”.

      hmm. “_Never_reveal_”…

      i would more go for: “Never say never” 🙂

  2. Hi Milla,
    Just wanted to share a site which has some more info on NVC: http://wiseheartpdx.org/index.php

    There is a jackal dictionary. If you look under workbook, there is a sample somewhere of a jackal excercise.

    There is also a feelings and needs list with what she calls “alarm” feelings hinting at possible judgments being involved.

    Hilde.

  3. M:
    I hate that stuck up ignorant asshole, A. Judge
    H:
    You don’t like A. That’s fine, noone has to like him.

    M:
    I mean the name says it all ,
    H:
    You do not trust this to be coincidence?

    M:
    the guidelines for the forum is a mess and the people on it are sheep. There’s no fairness or justice. One ignorant dictator saying one thing as the truth not having to prove anything.
    H:
    You don’t like the guidelines, you wish they were clearer. You get the impression that “the” people on the forum are not showing as much daring to contradict, rebel, fight as you would like to see, to be convinced that they are real?

    M:
    The people on the list are unaware of their judgmental attitude.
    H:
    You want to be sure that the people on the list are not blaming you?

    M:
    And that there is judgmental guilt tripping going on. And that it’s said over and over again “Are you aware that the guy is losing money” as if I’m some “case” “benefiting” and “ungrateful” not “valuing” this self-righteous Dick head enough.
    H:
    You want to hear that differently so you can be sure noone is implying that you are doing something wrong? Different in the sense of more verifiable? Like maybe: when you spend x time on M, I am worried about our income since XYZ happened, and I would like to be sure that I can count on financial continuity for our family.
    M:
    As if I would have anything to learn from that Stupid, lying, manipulative Male Chauvinist.
    Liar! Liar!
    H:
    So you would like to learn in the presence of someone who’s integrity you can trust based on previous experience? And you would like to learn in the presence of someone who respects your need for choice? And you find it difficult to trust males?
    M:
    Completely ignoring me and then trying to force intimacy as if I’m breaking some “RULE” by not feeling okay, having to FIGHT to be heard in order to get my needs met.
    H:
    You want spontaneous offers for help, understanding, acceptance? You don’t like dogging for your needs, you need rest and peace?
    M:
    Scared little shit!
    H:
    You would like to learn with someone who does not fear showing vulnerablity?

    M:
    I have a need for LEARNING and I can’t do that without reciprocity.
    H:
    You want a learning envionment with a possibility to engage in exchanges with others?

    M:
    The guy is INSANE and I’m asked to deal with it as if it’s “normal” as if I have no pain as if my pain is not real as if it’s a burden.
    H:
    You want your pain to be heard and seen. You want to be with your pain in a space where others can receive it without blame?
    M:
    I’m tired of having to be a “grown-up”.
    H:
    You would like to receive care?
    M:
    I just want to scream and scream and scream.
    H:
    You want to be able to express yourself fully?
    M:
    Cause they are not going to change. They will not make the effort.
    H:
    You feel despair, you need hope that you can see a beautiful world, hear beautiful messages?

    My request from you Milla: how does this translation sit with you?
    Hilde

    • by milla

      hilde wrote:
      “My request from you Milla: how does this translation sit with you?”

      here’s my response 🙂


      M: I hate that stuck up ignorant asshole, A. Judge
      H: You don’t like A. That’s fine, noone has to like him.

      ** i don’t hate a. i don’t even know a. i’m just frustrated with the non-connection happening, and overwhelmed with the immediate (and yet – not surprising) conflict that came up. i’m tired, and i don’t want to deal with it, but i want it dealt with, so i pour my frustration on the person whose behavior mostly triggered me in this.
      .
      .


      M: I mean the name says it all ,
      H: You do not trust this to be coincidence?

      ** i trust this to be a coincidence. but it was the first time i saw someone with that name [something ‘similar’ to “judge”] and in the context where the conflict culminated the name really triggered all kinds of freaky judgmental apprehensive thoughts and feelings. the comment “the name says it all” is more a bitter comment related to the distrust built up in me (many different actions triggering this, and building it up) and then coming out like this. the comment is not about the name. it’s about me being frustrated, bitter and tired.
      .
      .


      M: the guidelines for the forum is a mess and the people on it are sheep. There’s no fairness or justice. One ignorant dictator saying one thing as the truth not having to prove anything.
      H: You don’t like the guidelines, you wish they were clearer. You get the impression that “the” people on the forum are not showing as much daring to contradict, rebel, fight as you would like to see, to be convinced that they are real?

      ** yes to what you say about the guidelines. i wish they were clearer. i wouldn’t mind working on them, if i knew for sure, it wouldn’t be work wasted. that people wouldn’t work against it. seeing it as an “attack” or a “take over”. the “sheep” comment is once again tired frustration. as wish towards community dealing with structural power imbalance in a structured way, in an aware and sensitive way to all and everyone.
      .
      .


      M: The people on the list are unaware of their judgmental attitude.
      H: You want to be sure that the people on the list are not blaming you?

      ** maybe i’m wishing for ways to address domination systems and how we all take part in them, and how this thinking/participation comes out in text. it feels strange not addressing it. and at the same time i don’t want to end up talking about nothing else -exhausting myself- with defensive denying reactions all over the place. i would like to be able to talk about it with the same “neutral” effect as talking about jackals and giraffes. nothing to be upset about. we’re all “it”..
      .
      .


      M: And that there is judgmental guilt tripping going on. And that it’s said over and over again “Are you aware that the guy is losing money” as if I’m some “case” “benefiting” and “ungrateful” not “valuing” this self-righteous Dick head enough.
      H: You want to hear that differently so you can be sure noone is implying that you are doing something wrong? Different in the sense of more verifiable? Like maybe: when you spend x time on M, I am worried about our income since XYZ happened, and I would like to be sure that I can count on financial continuity for our family.

      ** yeah. would like to know that it’s not about blaming and shaming. i would like to know why me speaking. a and me having a conflict. and then YOU and i-don’t-even-know-how-many-more are speaking PRIVATELY about the matter, and I’M being told that a. is not getting paid for this… this is weird to me. and feels very much like guilt tripping. or just misdirected frustration. at least, when it’s not followed by some: “Would you be willing to..?” thing.. if there’s no request following, then why is it mentioned? (i also don’t make any money of the interactions on or off the list. and i guess no one there does. so to me it’s a weird thing to say. out of context. there’s a lot of stuff i don’t make any money of.)
      .
      .


      M: As if I would have anything to learn from that Stupid, lying, manipulative Male Chauvinist. Liar! Liar!
      H: So you would like to learn in the presence of someone who’s integrity you can trust based on previous experience? And you would like to learn in the presence of someone who respects your need for choice? And you find it difficult to trust males?

      ** i can recognize myself in all of the above. and then i could add: “find it difficult to trust whites, adults, etc..” difficult to trust anybody affected by ‘culture’ and claiming not to be affected, or not caring to find out in what ways they have been affected.
      .
      .


      M: Completely ignoring me and then trying to force intimacy as if I’m breaking some “RULE” by not feeling okay, having to FIGHT to be heard in order to get my needs met.
      H: You want spontaneous offers for help, understanding, acceptance? You don’t like dogging for your needs, you need rest and peace?

      ** i appreciate spontaneous offers for help, understanding, acceptance. i don’t expect it. and yes to the second sentence.
      .
      .


      M: Scared little shit!
      H: You would like to learn with someone who does not fear showing vulnerablity?

      ** i can say yes to this.
      .
      .


      M: I have a need for LEARNING and I can’t do that without reciprocity.
      H: You want a learning envionment with a possibility to engage in exchanges with others?

      ** yes. and where most of the exchanges are not “too challenging”. and where i have a choice to stay away from what i find too challenging, and take my time, learning little by little.
      .
      .


      M: The guy is INSANE and I’m asked to deal with it as if it’s “normal” as if I have no pain as if my pain is not real as if it’s a burden.
      H: You want your pain to be heard and seen. You want to be with your pain in a space where others can receive it without blame?

      ** i can say yes to this. and there’s probably more to add..
      .
      .


      M: I’m tired of having to be a “grown-up”.
      H: You would like to receive care?

      ** i have mental/emotional blocks. i somehow imagine there’s a lot of work i would have to do on/in myself before i would be able to receive care in an unreserved way. i would like for there to be common ways. community. not just random acts by individuals. a structure and awareness safe and secure and reliable, to lean on. this type of care – spelled out, known – i would be able to take in more easily. that type of care and support i would be able to trust and feel safe with.
      .
      .


      M: I just want to scream and scream and scream.
      H: You want to be able to express yourself fully?

      ** I want to stop explaining. Give up. Stop trying. This sentence expresses a deep sense of despair. Worn Out. Tired. Broken. That kind of stuff. A deep distrust in that i will ever make sense to anyone, and no matter how much i try i will not be understood. So i just want to scream and scream and scream. :p
      .
      .


      M: Cause they are not going to change. They will not make the effort.
      H: You feel despair, you need hope that you can see a beautiful world, hear beautiful messages?

      ** i feel despair yes. and i need hope. and a shared vision. i want community. a world without “outsiders”.

  4. by Milla

    hi hilde 🙂 i will just comment on this sentence, i will write more later. i need time to check how the translation fits. but this was a new one for me:


    M:
    Scared little shit!
    H:
    You would like to learn with someone who does not fear showing vulnerablity?

    yes! this is something i am experiencing.

    and my friend when we were doing the exercise, was when we were picking out the feelings adding: “Impatient” (or she said “aggressive impatience”) and i see that sentence being something like that. an urgent wish for authenticity and openness. feelings are nothing to be afraid of, and shouldn’t be seen as “taboo”. if you know yourself, there’s no reason to hide.

  5. Aha, aggressive impatience? Like go-getter impatience? Ambitious to get things done?

    An urgent wish for authenticity and openess?
    Are you experiencing a strong ambition to learn how to read feelings effectively, so that you can gauge authenticity and openess in others?

    M: Feelings are nothing to be afraid of.
    H: For me the words “nothing to be afraid of” signal a preference on your part. Can you see a judgment there?

    M: Feelings shouldn’t be taboo.
    H: The word “shouldn’t ” points at something YOU value.

    M: If you know yourself, ther is no reason to hide.
    H: There is no reason to hide for you because you value openess?

    Combining the above:
    Are you experiencing a strong ambition to learn how to read feelings effectively, so that you can gauge authenticity and openess in others. This ability may help you choose and nurture connection with people who are likely to reciprocate what you expect?

    How is that Milla?

    • by Milla

      my response to hilde’s comments 🙂


      H: Aha, aggressive impatience? Like go-getter impatience? Ambitious to get things done?

      ** maybe not ambitious to get things done. more like, ready to take on a challenge. or maybe like “get things done” if looking at it from the perspective of every interaction as a learning experience. see what it’s like. where it leads to. what it unravels.
      .
      .


      H: An urgent wish for authenticity and openess?
      Are you experiencing a strong ambition to learn how to read feelings effectively, so that you can gauge authenticity and openess in others?

      ** eeh. yes. but i suspect i’m pretty far from it.. :p a lot of work ahead.. i guess the “scared little shit” is impatience on my side. wondering why it’s so difficult for someone to “just do it”. wondering why i try to mold myself into something that would be perceived as “non-threatening” in order for the other to share what’s there. wondering how i can be open and authentic in a “non-scary” way.. :p
      .
      .


      M: Feelings are nothing to be afraid of.
      H: For me the words “nothing to be afraid of” signal a preference on your part. Can you see a judgment there?

      ** eeh. i’m clumsy with words. i’m trying to express a wish (yes a preference, not a judgment) towards a world where feelings are viewed as natural. and a vision towards a world where feelings are like notes, and that we would be just as aware of shifts and changes in our bodies as someone very trained in hearing shifts and changes in a musical piece. that we would have the knowledge and awareness -“trained inner ears”- following our inner music.
      .
      .


      M: Feelings shouldn’t be taboo.
      H: The word “shouldn’t ” points at something YOU value.

      ** yes. it’s a value. a preference. i would like to live in a world where feelings can be shared/talked about. openly. in an environment valuing caring and understanding.
      .
      .


      M: If you know yourself, ther is no reason to hide.
      H: There is no reason to hide for you because you value openess?

      ** the more i look at myself and understand myself -the more i know myself, the more i know what i want- the less i fear what others might think. i’m not driven by approval/disapproval. we are taught to hide our feelings. to feel shame. to become numb. poker faced. once i’m in touch with myself i see no reason to play along. there is nothing to be ashamed of. i just am. and i can choose and can change. a bit stuck in habits, but at least realizing what is me and what is a ‘poker-face’, pretending to feel no pain. — we are on this small ball in space. life is short. and there is absolutely nothing to hide.
      .
      .


      Combining the above:
      Are you experiencing a strong ambition to learn how to read feelings effectively, so that you can gauge authenticity and openess in others. This ability may help you choose and nurture connection with people who are likely to reciprocate what you expect?

      How is that Milla?

      ** hmm. i’m a bit confused. kind of trying to explain what i was thinking, in the comments made above. not knowing if i’m managing to get anything of what i wish to say across to you.. if my intention is getting any clearer. :p

      i’m a bit uncertain. but i guess i would go “yes” with the first sentence. and saying “that would be a nice surprise, and a sought after change in myself!” to the second sentence.. didn’t think about it that way. i’ve been traveling a lot the last few years. i’m used to being alone. i would like to develop relations with others. haven’t had the opportunity to do so. or i haven’t chosen it. the few times i have, i have not chosen wisely. i would like to learn how to do what you say in your second sentence – choose and nurture connections with people who are likely to reciprocate what i expect. (ie sharing values and acting out on them)

      thank you hilde,
      for fruitful feedback,

      would you be willing to share some of your inner process?
      if you are – then i’m all ears 🙂

      take care

  6. M: yeah. would like to know that it’s not about blaming and shaming. i would like to know why me speaking. a and me having a conflict. and then YOU and i-don’t-even-know-how-many-more are speaking PRIVATELY about the matter, and I’M being told that a. is not getting paid for this… this is weird to me. and feels very much like guilt tripping. or just misdirected frustration. at least, when it’s not followed by some: “Would you be willing to..?” thing.. if there’s no request following, then why is it mentioned? (i also don’t make any money of the interactions on or off the list. and i guess no one there does. so to me it’s a weird thing to say. out of context. there’s a lot of stuff i don’t make any money of.)

    H: So you want to understand what needs I was trying to meet by mentioning the money issue? I can understand your discomfort and frustration. At the same time I feel some irritation because I need reciprocity in this process and I would like to invite you to request clarification whenever you are not as clear as you like about what I write. Is that doable?
    Regarding private communication, you worry about what may have been said and you felt distant and lonely and angry, wanting to belong, to be accepted, to be part of it all?

    M: yes. and where most of the exchanges are not “too challenging”. and where i have a choice to stay away from what i find too challenging, and take my time, learning little by little.
    H: You want to work with and study NVC at a steady pace in exchanges that match your energy level of the moment?

    M: I just want to scream and scream and scream.
    H: You want to be able to express yourself fully?
    M: I want to stop explaining. Give up. Stop trying. This sentence expresses a deep sense of despair. Worn Out. Tired. Broken. That kind of stuff. A deep distrust in that i will ever make sense to anyone, and no matter how much i try i will not be understood. So i just want to scream and scream and scream. :p
    H: You want this to be really HEARD: you are TIRED, depleted……. and you need hope that this can change?

    M:Scared little shit!
    H:You would like to learn with someone who does not fear showing vulnerablity?
    M:yes! this is something i am experiencing and my friend when we were doing the exercise, was when we were picking out the feelings adding: “Impatient” (or she said “aggressive impatience”) and i see that sentence being something like that. an urgent wish for authenticity and openness. feelings are nothing to be afraid of, and shouldn’t be seen as “taboo”. if you know yourself, there’s no reason to hide.

    H: Aha, aggressive impatience? Like go-getter impatience? Ambitious to get things done?
    M: maybe not ambitious to get things done. more like, ready to take on a challenge. or maybe like “get things done” if looking at it from the perspective of every interaction as a learning experience. see what it’s like. where it leads to. what it unravels.

    H:You asked to share some of my inner process. Here is more or less what went on when I tried to transform the paragraph above. I like to do “focusing” (if interested you can find info here: http://www.focusing.org/) as a way to guide my inner process. Without going into the details, I basically start by picking out what seems to be essential, the most important part. This could be a single word or several strings, being the ‘essence’ is what I get back from my body, a vague sense of “that’ s what this is about”. I notice this in my abdomen. Then I let words come up, just wait for them to come spontaneously. I may start doing some housework while doing that. Words that seem to be going somewhere, like a vague sense of “going in the right direction”, I write them down or make a mental note of them. This continues in an ongoing way, new words come up and there is a general sense of carrying forward, getting somewhere. Here is an attempt to write some of it down:
    H: take on a challenge ….. get things done……. every interaction ….. learning experience
    try out……accomplish….. no linits…….opportunities
    try out = experiment (needs: learning, discovery..)
    accomplish = results = effect ( needs: effectiveness, capability to produce an effect)
    every = (need: openess)
    interaction = (need: participation)
    learning experience = opportunity for growth = space = autonomy, participation
    Guess: Would you like to find an open space where you can freely explore, discover and learn effectively?
    The sentence in which I tried to incorporate the parts is the result of 3 or 4 efforts, till it sits more or less right, for me that is. I try to eliminate what sounds like too much.

    M: Feelings are nothing to be afraid of.
    H: For me the words “nothing to be afraid of” signal a preference on your part. Can you see a judgment there?
    M: eeh. i’m clumsy with words. i’m trying to express a wish (yes a preference, not a judgment)
    H: Aha, you say “not a judgment”? Are you convinced that judgments are wrong? When I prefer something it is because I judge that to be right, why else would I prefer it? 🙂 Would you be interested in exploring “judgments”?
    M:towards a world where feelings are viewed as natural. and a vision towards a world where feelings are like notes, and that we would be just as aware of shifts and changes in our bodies as someone very trained in hearing shifts and changes in a musical piece. that we would have the knowledge and awareness -”trained inner ears”- following our inner music.
    H: I got that.

    M: Feelings shouldn’t be taboo.
    H: The word “shouldn’t ” points at something YOU value.
    M: yes. it’s a value. a preference. i would like to live in a world where feelings can be shared/talked about. openly. in an environment valuing caring and understanding.
    H: I understand “talking about feelings”. Would you be willing to elaborate on “sharing feelings”?

    M: the more i look at myself and understand myself -the more i know myself, the more i know what i want- the less i fear what others might think. i’m not driven by approval/disapproval.
    H: You don’t want to choose to do something just to get approval?

    M:we are taught to hide our feelings to feel shame. to become numb. poker faced. once i’m in touch with myself i see no reason to play along. there is nothing to be ashamed of. i just am. and i can choose and can change. a bit stuck in habits, but at least realizing what is me and what is a ‘poker-face’, pretending to feel no pain. — we are on this small ball in space. life is short. and there is absolutely nothing to hide.
    H: You were taught not to give clear displays of certain feelings? You feel shame sometimes and you are convinced that that is the result of what people taught you? Or is it rather that you get the impression that you were taught that certain behaviors, like giving displays of emotion, are something to be ashamed about?

    Would you like to be able to feel ashamed and just say: “hi feeling, so you are there, trying to tell me something, trying to protect me” in the same way you say “hi hunger” or “hi irritation”? Or are you telling yourself that you should be able to go through life without feeling “shame”?

    M: there is absolutely nothing to hide.
    H: I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. Would you be willing to clarify for me how not hiding feelings (or showing them) would meet certain needs of yours?

    Milla, I have a need for effectiveness and I wonder whether we could explore ideas on how I could get some ease around editing? ( Preferably, just 1 coherent text, no bullets, indetation and such, that I can copy and work with in my word processing program)

    Hilde.

    • by Milla

      RESPONSE TO HILDE’S FEEDBACK
      PART 1


      H: So you want to understand what needs I was trying to meet by mentioning the money issue? I can understand your discomfort and frustration. At the same time I feel some irritation because I need reciprocity in this process and I would like to invite you to request clarification whenever you are not as clear as you like about what I write. Is that doable?

      ** M: I can not promise to give you feedback on everything you say, and everything I think, feel, need in relation to that, since that would require a whole lot more text processed, and I have a need for ease. If you wish we could have a talk on Skype and connect better with warm human voice. Would you be willing to try that out?

      And to answer your question. No, I wasn’t looking for what needs were being met by expressing the money issue. I was more expressing how this was received on my end. But now when you are saying it then yes, I would be interested in hearing why you mentioned it in the way you did. Would you like to say something about that?
      .
      .


      H: Regarding private communication, you worry about what may have been said and you felt distant and lonely and angry, wanting to belong, to be accepted, to be part of it all?

      ** M: I don’t worry about what has been said. I worry about there being unspoken expectations from people involved in the discussions (private and on the forum) on roles we’re supposed to take on. I didn’t feel comfortable hearing the needs of A. coming out, all of a sudden, in your postings, mixed with your own feelings and needs. I would have liked to hear “I have had so and so much email, phone etc contact with A. and A. and A.’s partner have now asked me to deliver this message” or something such. So the unclarity in what was going on, and who (you? a.? a’s partner? Who?!) had said what and thought what increased the stress and alienation for me, and that’s why in the end I decided to create the two threads on the forum addressing A. directly to see if there could be more of a straight connection than this random guessing game going on.

      I felt sick, I felt stressed, I felt confused and distressed. Now with the two threads there I feel better.

      • M: ……I have a need for ease.
        If you wish we could have a talk on Skype and connect better with warm
        human voice. Would you be willing to try that out?

        H:Thanks for your responses. I am hearing that you are tired and worn out and maybe you would like to seriously reduce all this thinking and probing or maybe just focus on one issue at a time?
        I think I can understand how calling via Skype would meet your needs for authenticity and trust. You want to be sure you have someone in front of you who is not hiding? 😉

        I am feeling reluctant, I don’t like telephone calls in general. I had skype installed on my pc and never used it for 6 months so one of the children got the camera etc… I would like to think about this and then maybe get back to you about this possibility sometime next week. The summer holidays are starting soon here and I will have children around most of the time, my 3 youngest + 2 grandchildren.
        Plus to tell the truth, I am slow at processing my thoughts in real time. 😉

        M:And to answer your question. No, I wasn’t looking for what needs were
        being met by expressing the money issue. I was more expressing how
        this was received on my end. But now when you are saying it then yes,
        I would be interested in hearing why you mentioned it in the way you
        did. Would you like to say something about that?

        H: I really value equality and I was hoping to contribute to or restore the balance by pointing at what I perceived to be some of A’s needs.
        I wanted acceptance for all members, including the moderators. I guess that was my strategy towards equality.

        H: Regarding private communication, you worry about what may have been said and you felt distant and lonely and angry, wanting to belong, to be accepted, to be part of it all?
        M: I don’t worry about what has been said. I worry about there being
        unspoken expectations from people involved in the discussions (private
        and on the forum) on roles we’re supposed to take on.

        H:So how would it be for you to work just on this one?

        Do you have an example of a sentence or words that triggered the idea of unspoken expectations? Would you like to try doing the OFNR with such an example? Maybe you could go back to the message and make an observation and try it from there?

        Milla, I have read your other responses and will reread them a couple of times over the next couple of days. But for now, I would like to reduce the writing a bit because I would like to contribute to your ease as well as for space/time/peace.

        If there is anything that is very much alive for you and if you would like to try out the OFNR process, please let me know. I would like you to have opportunities to try this out for yourself and start experiencing the change within.

        Warmly (or rather sweltering hotly ;-))

        Hilde.

    • by Milla

      RESPONSE TO HILDE’S FEEDBACK
      PART 2


      M: yes. and where most of the exchanges are not “too challenging”. and where i have a choice to stay away from what i find too challenging, and take my time, learning little by little.
      H: You want to work with and study NVC at a steady pace in exchanges that match your energy level of the moment?

      ** M: I’m fairly worn out at the moment. I guess I’m just asking for something that doesn’t feel too overwhelming. Matching my energy level would require a whole different process than what is going on right now. So I’m just asking for “not too overwhelming”.. :p

      M: You said about the “Scream and scream and scream” sentence..

      H: You want this to be really HEARD: you are TIRED, depleted……. and you need hope that this can change?

      ** M: I could say yes to this.

      M: Thank you for sharing your working method: ‘focusing’. And as a response to this..

      H: Guess: Would you like to find an open space where you can freely explore, discover and learn effectively?

      ** M: Yes.

    • by Milla

      RESPONSE TO HILDE’S FEEDBACK
      PART 3


      H: Aha, you say “not a judgment”? Are you convinced that judgments are wrong? When I prefer something it is because I judge that to be right, why else would I prefer it? Would you be interested in exploring “judgments”?

      ** M: If you wish to talk more about judgments then we can do that. I think the word “judgment” can be understood in many different ways. Some judgments I consider “right” some judgments I consider “wrong”. Preferences can come out of habits, and habits are usually attached to culture which very often is related to judgments. So I wouldn’t necessarily see preferences as something neutral or unrelated, independent of what happens around me (preferences = likings and habits within systems of domination). I know this is very abstract. It’s written randomly to hopefully provide you with some idea of that there’s plenty to say.. and to make it easier for you to “judge” whether or not you would be interested in talking more about that specific topic. (I have no clue of what it is you are trying to say yourself when asking me the questions above)
      .
      .


      H: I understand “talking about feelings”. Would you be willing to elaborate on “sharing feelings”?

      ** M: talking is something we do by opening our mouths and speaking. “sharing” is my idea of a space where it feels comfortable opening up and speaking without the idea of “competition” (winning an argument) or “right or wrong”. “sharing” I imagine to be done in a listening, caring environement. I’m too tired to explain further. If it’s still not clear please ask more.
      .
      .


      H: You don’t want to choose to do something just to get approval?

      ** M: I say yes to that.
      .
      .


      H: You were taught not to give clear displays of certain feelings? You feel shame sometimes and you are convinced that that is the result of what people taught you? Or is it rather that you get the impression that you were taught that certain behaviors, like giving displays of emotion, are something to be ashamed about?

      ** M: I once was a child. I once was a baby. Showing feelings openly. naturally. Crying. Yawning. Screaming. Laughing. Then I was growing up, within systems of domination, and my feelings were shaped to fit into these systems. (family, school, television teaching me and providing me with “moral” values.) I see most of my feelings and emotional responses to be “perverted” by culture. I’m tired when I’m writing this. If this wasn’t the response you were looking for, or you need further explanation, please ask.
      .
      .


      H: Would you like to be able to feel ashamed and just say: “hi feeling, so you are there, trying to tell me something, trying to protect me” in the same way you say “hi hunger” or “hi irritation”? Or are you telling yourself that you should be able to go through life without feeling “shame”?

      ** M: Yes. Like hunger, or feeling tired. Feeling shame. “Hi there”.
      .
      .


      M: there is absolutely nothing to hide.
      H: I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. Would you be willing to clarify for me how not hiding feelings (or showing them) would meet certain needs of yours?

      ** M: in a space where i can speak and be without ‘hiding’ it is possible for me to grow. If others do the same, it would meet my needs for authenticity and connection, learning and growth.

      • H: Aha, you say “not a judgment”? Are you convinced that judgments are
        wrong? When I prefer something it is because I judge that to be right,
        why else would I prefer it? Would you be interested in exploring
        “judgments”?

        M: If you wish to talk more about judgments then we can do that. I
        think the word “judgment” can be understood in many different ways.
        Some judgments I consider “right” some judgments I consider “wrong”.
        Preferences can come out of habits, and habits are usually attached to
        culture which very often is related to judgments. So I wouldn’t
        necessarily see preferences as something neutral or unrelated,
        independent of what happens around me (preferences = likings and
        habits within systems of domination). I know this is very abstract.
        It’s written randomly to hopefully provide you with some idea of that
        there’s plenty to say.. and to make it easier for you to “judge”
        whether or not you would be interested in talking more about that
        specific topic. (I have no clue of what it is you are trying to say
        yourself when asking me the questions above)
        H: I have noticed that my understanding of the word “judgment” does not always correspond with other NVCer’s understanding of that word. When I think of a judgment as it starts forming in my mind, it is sometimes a vague bodily sense or sometimes a strong bodily sense of something eek, or yuk, or not for me, or definitely wrong for me. I never doubt those bodily messages, they are there to serve me. Gradually words come up to describe that sense. In NVC we are encouraged to go beyond right and wrong by expressing ourselves in needs-language. When I manage to transform that initial judgment from my body into an OFNR, my chances of being heard and having my needs valued by others, become much more realistic.
        Does this clarifie my question?

        H: I understand “talking about feelings”. Would you be willing to
        elaborate on “sharing feelings”?
        M: talking is something we do by opening our mouths and speaking.
        “sharing” is my idea of a space where it feels comfortable opening up
        and speaking without the idea of “competition” (winning an argument)
        or “right or wrong”. “sharing” I imagine to be done in a listening,
        caring environement. I’m too tired to explain further. If it’s still
        not clear please ask more.
        H: So when you think of sharing, you are hoping for a safe space where your vulnerability is received with respect in a spirit of equality?

        H: You were taught not to give clear displays of certain feelings? You
        feel shame sometimes and you are convinced that that is the result of
        what people taught you? Or is it rather that you get the impression
        that you were taught that certain behaviors, like giving displays of
        emotion, are something to be ashamed about?
        M: I once was a child. I once was a baby. Showing feelings openly.
        naturally. Crying. Yawning. Screaming. Laughing. Then I was growing
        up, within systems of domination, and my feelings were shaped to fit
        into these systems. (family, school, television teaching me and
        providing me with “moral” values.) I see most of my feelings and
        emotional responses to be “perverted” by culture. I’m tired when I’m
        writing this. If this wasn’t the response you were looking for, or you
        need further explanation, please ask.
        H: You would like to live in an environment where you can show feelings openly, the way a baby does? You don’t like the expectations societies/cultures have about dealing with feelings?

        M: there is absolutely nothing to hide.
        H: I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. Would you be
        willing to clarify for me how not hiding feelings (or showing them)
        would meet certain needs of yours?
        M: in a space where i can speak and be without ‘hiding’ it is possible
        for me to grow. If others do the same, it would meet my needs for
        authenticity and connection, learning and growth.
        H: So when you are with people who prefer to keep some/most feelings to deal with privately, you feel disconnected and you find it hard to trust that there is much you can learn in their presence?
        Everything we do, we do to meet a need! Any idea what needs a person might be trying to meet when hiding his/her feelings? Fear for not having their need for emotional safety met? Fear that their vulnerability will be abused and land them in a situation of inequality? Can you connect with those fears?

        Anything in this that stimulates further conversation? I hope that going at a slower pace is helping you get some ease and rest?

        Warmly,

        Hilde.

    • by Milla

      RESPONSE TO HILDE’S FEEDBACK
      PART 4


      Milla, I have a need for effectiveness and I wonder whether we could explore ideas on how I could get some ease around editing? ( Preferably, just 1 coherent text, no bullets, indetation and such, that I can copy and work with in my word processing program)
      Hilde.

      ** I sent you the response in 4 parts through email with no ” or *. if you wish for something different, please let me know, come with suggestions. i’m overly tired. and would prefer having a talk like this over skype. would you be okay with that? (skype is a program that you can download for free, and makes it possible to make calls between computers, also for free http://www.skype.com/ )

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