What? (talking with a guy with a bad habit of dominating women)

by Cunt Incognita, FOTZE in Berlin — she=he

This blog post is a continuation of THIS

I feel sick. Lonely. I get response in private confirming that things are not right with the men’s group in Budapest. But no public support or any form of knowing how to talk with these guys. Daniel is taking part in their activity. Sitting at their meetings and talking with them about me sexually coercing the man into sleeping with me. Letting these type of rumors go around, reassuring people that “this has already been discussed” between Daniel and I. No. This has never been “discussed”. Daniel is lying.

And at the same time, there’s no space made where I can speak of my reality in relation to this man without being silenced, scorned, told that I’m mentally ill. There is no space made where my reality is taken seriously, where there’s some effort made to heal the hurt and the aching ills of the past and present.

I feel sick when speaking with Daniel. I feel sick that there’s no help to get this done. I know the rules. I should bite my tongue and suffer in silence. I should know that I’m insane for asking for a change in the man, or a change in the persons in collusion with Daniel’s non-accountability and refusal to change. I’m selfish and demanding for asking for help, and I should conform and adapt and accept. Forgive and forget. I know the rules. I feel them deeply inside of me. But I don’t know how to obey. Why should I?

,

QUESTION – from me, written in black

ANSWER – from Daniel, screenprints of the reply over Facebook

RESPONSE and QUESTIONS – from me in green

.

Daniel responding to my question about why the guy doesn’t want to see my face around, saying that the reasons have been stated already, many times, last summer..

hmm. you are absolutely totally vague. i don’t understand a word of what you are saying. could you be more specific?

1) what things were you repeating last summer?

A) Why do you want to meet live?

You said that you’ve been repeating the reasons for why you don’t want to see my face around. I asked you what those reasons were. You said you’ve been repeating them last summer, and that I should look them up. I tell you I don’t understand what the reasons are, and I ask you to express them explicitly. Your answer to this is that we should talk about it at a meeting – face to face.

This doesn’t make sense to me:

You don’t want to see my face around. And you say you’ve given the reasons for this many times. But you don’t care to repeat them again, when I say I don’t understand, and I ask you a direct question.

You say: Let’s talk about this face to face.

B) Why do you need a face to face meeting to tell me why you don’t want to see my face around?

You say that you don’t have time to discuss the reasons for not wanting to see my face around online.

C) 1: What takes your time away from sorting these things out? 2: What would be the difference between a face to face meeting and an online meeting?

2) what was the sum up of the meeting we had in Vienna?

D) What made sense to you with the meeting in Vienna?

E) 1: What did not make sense to you with the other meetings? 2: What does ‘making sense’ mean?

F) 1: Why do you speak from a ‘we’ perspective, as if the feeling of ‘making sense’ in Vienna was mutual? 2: Do you believe this feeling was mutual?

I don’t like that you include me in your feeling of that meeting. I don’t share your perspective or feelings.

G) Why do you view the text you are referring to as ‘yours’?

I wrote the text. You read it through, and ‘okayed’ it. But you didn’t live your end of the agreement.

H) 1: Do you feel that you lived your end of the agreement? 2: If yes: How?

Here are your written statements about Vienna.

Daniel about Milla:

“saying that she shits on my feelings, forcing me to physically please her with emotional pressure (it happened in Vienna when we were supposed to have a “clearing up meeting”… she forced me to sleep with her… she said she doesnt care if its out of whatever feeling she has a right to that… then she forcibly kissed me and wanted to sleep with me saying later that she noticed how much i didnt want it from my body language, but her first question was “why cant i make up my mind?” like its my fault”.

Daniel about Milla:

“we didnt have intercourse… she really would have had to use physical force for that… but it stopped at emotional coercion and physical “attempts”…”

The quotes come from Stacy. You told her that you and I already talked about this. H) 3: When did we talk about this?

I don’t share your perspective on what happened. In fact. I would say that you are lying.

3) in what way do 1&2 affect my face?

I) What is the issue according to you?

J) 1: Why can it only be solved live? 2: What would you consider as ‘solving the issue’?

4) how do you relate to concepts like accountability?
5) what does accountability mean to you?
6) do you practice accountability, and if yes? how?

K) 1: What mechanism makes you in what way? 2: Mechanism = What behavior? What thing? 3: The way you are = What behavior?

L) What behavior is it that you are trying to make happen in relation to people you encounter in your everyday life? Give specific examples please. I don’t understand what you are talking about.

M) 1: What behavior is important to you? 2: What behavior is it that you are far from practicing?

N) 1: What is it that you are trying to set straight with me? 2: What does “setting straight” mean?

N) 3: How do you relate to having made statements like this, in relation to me for several months wanting to talk about what I lived and experienced in relation to you:

“i dont want to talk to an obssesed, alcoholic stalker, who thinks i should go kill myself, writes sarcastic messages in my name, uses my friends, sexually abuses me, wants to take out lifelong traumas on me and shits on my feelings…. yes this was all traumatizing to me you FUCKING, INSENSITIVE; ASS…”

N) 4: Do you think that anti-sexism is possible to make happen disconnected from the reality lived by women? 5: On several occasions you’ve called my reality distorted and you’ve also called me mentally ill. In what way are you practicing accountability in the statement above? 6: How is this related to your anti-sexist practice?

7) what does anti-sexism mean to you?

N) 6: When we intervened in Helsinki, you didn’t understand the gender aspect of a man beating a woman in the street. What do you mean by “it’s usually more than that?”

O) What does ‘patriarchic culture’ mean?

P) 1: What do you read? 2: What do you do in the men’s group? 3: What do you discuss with people you live?

Q) 1: Do you acknowledge male chauvinist behaviors in yourself? 2: Do you acknowledge having this type of behavior towards me? 3: Do you acknowledge the harmful affect your behaviors have on others? 4: How do you turn around patriarchal culture in relation to me?

You wrote a negative reference in relation to me on couchsurfing, where you do not acknowledge male chauvinist behavior in relation to me – after I pointed out that you have severe problems with this. Instead you wrote that I have drinking problems (without stating the same about yourself?!) and that I have mental problems (without saying the same about yourself?!)

R) 1: Why do you say that I am borderline? 2: In what way does this statement support turning patriarchic culture around? 3: In what way does a statement like that support patriarchal culture?

8. you say you have caused me harm. in what way have you caused me harm?

S) 1: Why do you make a statement about having caused me harm? 2: And how come you refuse to define it when I – the person you caused harm – asks you to? 3: Who should define it and why? 4: Do you acknowledge having harmful behaviors, causing me harm in the present time as well?

9) how are you in contact with the men’s group?

T) 1: Have you talked with the group about me sexually coercing you? 2: Have you talked with the group about Hajni sexually coercing you? 3: Have you talked with the group about you talking to other people about me and Hajni having had sexually coercive behavior towards you? 4: Do you believe that these statements you are making are true? 5: How has the men’s group responded to these statements?

10) how can outsiders get in contact with the men’s group in such a way that they would respond?
11) could you hook me up with people from the men’s group?

They responded after I asked a woman to pass on my questions to them. The woman is in a group working with support for battered women. The group is supervised by Peter, who is one of the guys in the men’s group. [This power relation is super problematic!] The men’s group ignored the contacts made by several others, including myself before this. And you mentioned 5 persons interested in joining a meeting between you and I. The response was only from Feri, Gabor and Peter. Not the whole group.

They stated clearly that they only speak with people that they want to speak with – defined as “in a working relation” with these three men.

They said that you are on a trial period with the group.

U) 1: What does being on a trial period mean? 2: Does that mean that you are in a working relation with them? 3: How long does it last? 4: What do you need to do during this period? 5: How do they make a decision for you to stay in the group or not? 6: Did Feri, Gabor and Peter go through this trial period? 7: How were you informed of the conditions for staying with the group?

V) 1: Do you trust the men in the group? 2: If yes: Why? 3: If no: Why?

W) 1: Could you contact individual members of this group, and ask them if they would meet me online for chat? I am here referring to the five persons you said were interested in participating in a meeting between you and I. 2: If your answer is no: Why?

X) Could you – as a person I assume is in a working relation with the group (it is still not clear to me how to get a response from this group), so, could you pass on these questions to the group, and have them discussed at the next meeting?

1. I hope you can understand why, right from the outset, women and feminist groups might be wary of mens organizations, and so would desire transparency in regards to policies and procedure?

2. Policies about how to handle issues regarding male members sexism towards women in their personal lives?

3. Policies regarding decision making?

4. Policies regarding discussion management?

WHY ARE THESE QUESTIONS NOT IMPORTANT TO THE MEN IN THE GROUP? WHY ARE THESE QUESTIONS ON PRACTICAL PROCEDURES IGNORED?

The four points above was sent to the group by a woman, and she did not receive any response. I would like to know how these questions could be responded to. Since you are in the group, I assume you would have the power to make that happen. Or at least have the possibility to ask the others of your group about this, face to face.

Y) I have problems with contradictory behaviors and statements made by you. I don’t know if this is related to the mental illness you say that you are suffering from: Borderline (1a: What does it mean? 1b: Have you been getting this diagnosis from a doctor?) So, if we would have face to face meeting, I would very much like to have it recorded, filmed. 2: Would you agree to this? 3: If no: Why?

And all these questions have been sent to Daniel:

Reading this blog post through, makes me physically ill. Makes me want to vomit.

Daniel has said that I have sexually abused her. Daniel has said that I am stalking her. Daniel is saying that she is doing anti-sexist work on a daily level, and making efforts to be accountable to the people around her – when I know she is lying to people around her about all kinds of stuff. Daniel calls me mentally ill, and says that my reality is distorted. I feel ill. I feel really ill.

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