by Milla [she=he]
For further background on this discussion check this post
In the video I’m talking with Stacy about feminism, my exclusion from the Helsinki social center, and about her saying that I raped a man called Daniel. A man I had a very abusive intimate relation with, and that I would still like to confront on fucked up behavior.
For further background on the fucked behavior read
I will write more on this talk later. Below the video is a transcript of what is said.
Milla: Anyhow, I think my main point is that the stuff that you said, is not just words it’s something that affects and it’s also fitting into a political system, and I, yeah … and therefor, when you’re talking about me distancing myself from certain persons or scenes, then … that I see that this is what I’m doing right now when I am distancing myself from you as a friend, because I can not deal with how you relate to this issue.
Stacy: So, what would you have done in my position? Just play that, you know, “Milla is cool” and “Daniel is cool” and they are on each others throats.
Milla: How I would see a situation like this?
Stacy: Yeah. Would you be in my position accepting that, you know, well I have two friends and they are just tearing each other apart? And just like, ignoring this conflict at all, you know? Like I did for a very long time, I tried to ignore that.
Milla: The way I would have dealt with it, especially if there is like, a clear power relation going on, if there is an issue of certain positions of privilege and oppression that are systematic, structural — like me being born as a woman, and Dani as a man and then when we relate to each other in an intimate relation and I try to point out abusive behaviors to this person and this person is avoiding it then I think from my point of view, it would have been fairly clear that I would support the woman in this case, and I wouldn’t treat these persons as like having equal power relation, or even start blaming the woman in this case. I mean it’s the same thing as watching a scene where there is police brutality going on and then treating these persons as “Well – you the person who was demonstrating, and you the person in the uniform with the stick beating the other person up that – I will now sit and mediate between you two, and I will treat you as, like, having equal power in this relation” And that’s not true, and the same goes for an intimate relation where a man and a woman is involved, and I feel that you are really belittling the violence, the rapes, the killings that are going on continuously, when you say that a woman’s slap by a man, you know, that because of this they build up this rage and hatred of women – It is not true, I find it really … it’s really a problematic way of thinking.
Stacy: You brought out a very important point in this discussion. Why should I always believe that women are honest? Why should I always even believe that the activist version of events is the truth and not the police version? Just like that? I have brought out that, you know, some of the rape charges are false, and would it not be for a woman a very easy way to use power against men to lie about stories of abuse? Why should I just blatantly accept your version as the sole truth, especially when I find difficulties with your stories?
Milla: I would say that one major reason to believe when they step out and speak about sexualized abuse is that, women who talk about it, they don’t get any reward, they don’t get any fame, they don’t get into a power position, instead there is usually a lot of blame and protection of the man’s reality, and the man’s story in this case.
Stacy: I think I disagree about that, I think many people are protective of the woman. I could see it with the Ladyfest where there was rape, everybody, including me, were immediately protecting the woman, never hearing the story of the man. And I still stand by that. I have never questioned it. And, also, I wanted to point out that the Pittsburgh CrimeThink case where there were legitimate concerns about race and anarchist people of color came in to CrimeThink convergence and started throwing people’s bags out of the house, and telling the white people to leave America and stuff like that. I really saw that you are the same kind of distractor, even though you have a point, and they had a point, then that was totally false, and few people of color joined them because they thought that “Hey, those folks are really cutting edge radicals here”. But later they saw that, you know, that they hadn’t really thought out things. So I thought, is my relationship to your feminism that I brainlessly think that, you know, you are the cutting edge most radical feminist and like I should follow you in all questions. No, I started to think on my own.
Milla: I don’t really understand the comparison, because I am not … I think that, from my point of view, I try to point out sexist thinking and sexist behavior, and I would say that you are supporting the same structures. I am not telling people to “Go to your own little island somewhere”, I can tell people who I’ve chosen to try to build a friendship with, that I would not wish to have that anymore, because I find it oppressive, and … but, I don’t see anything wrong in confronting power. I don’t see anything wrong in speaking my reality. And leaving other person… like, leaving it possible for the other persons to confront that. It’s perfectly open to do that on the blog for instance.