Stacy & Milla [4:7]

by Milla [she=he]

For further background on this discussion check this post


In the video I’m talking with Stacy about feminism, my exclusion from the Helsinki social center, and about her saying that I raped a man called Daniel. A man I had a very abusive intimate relation with, and that I would still like to confront on fucked up behavior.

For further background on the fucked behavior read


I will write more on this talk later. Below the video is a transcript of what is said.

Milla: So, as I understand it, what you don’t want is women who confront men on abusive behavior. I … What was it? Yeah. Cause you were saying – back to the other point – cause you were saying you don’t understand why Taru would say such a thing that I wouldn’t be allowed to talk about feminism – “why my type of feminism” – at the same time you have expressed that I have a rabid misandry which is an aggressive man-hatred, that’s how you describe my feminism, and I would like to understand … I mean in a sense … I feel really weirded out and that it’s completely insane to have this conversation because I can not identify with this whatsoever. But, yeah, it would be interesting to hear what specific things, in my doings or sayings, that is related to hatred, expressing a hatred and abuse towards men.

Stacy: You belong to a group called, I think, “We are not the fun kin of feminists” and I …

Milla: You’re talking about a Facebook group.

Stacy: Yes, and it listed many many things from radical feminists, and those really make my skin crawl. Those people are really man-haters, so you are identifying with a group that is really aggressive, and like them … They also have a strategy or a tactic that does not lead anywhere. And I really started to understand why people think, or laugh at “ha ha – feminists are just lesbians” because those kinds of feminists have so very little understanding to the position male people are having. —— That’s my point. Please understand where he is standing a little bit. Try to be forgiving.

Milla: Okay, ehm … I guess that is was a request and not a demand, or a personal point of view that you were expressing before, when you said that you would wish for me to leave Dani alone, and I could say as I said before that I disagree with this, I feel that I have a right to confront and to get support in confronting this person. You are also saying that this person should not engage in intimate relations until she’s actually worked through the issues that I’m trying to point out continuously. And this is something that I also agree with, cause it’s clear to me that if she can not be confronted with what I say, then it’s not okay for her to continue doing the same thing with more women. But I can not agree with you on not following through this whole process that I’m going through, with other persons involved intimately with Dani, with persons like the mens’ separatist group in Budapest, that I still haven’t gotten a clear answer from, what kind of structures they have with a woman like myself who would like to confront a person involved in their activities. So it’s nothing that I can say … I can only say that, yeah, I won’t … cause I stopped drinking, and I won’t write like, misdirected aggressive messages to this person anymore, that my anger can come out in more constructive ways. Also that you said that you took it upon yourself to mediate, and I think that in order to mediate, to actually have that position, it’s important to ask the persons involved if they want to have that mediation happen, so I don’t find your role in this as mediation but more you as a person like getting into an emotional state and then, kind of just expressing your feelings of, I guess, disbelief and things like that, because as I see it you’ve met both Dani and myself and then you have your perspective on how we function and how we are and then when there are very different realities being spoken then you have, I guess you’re in a position where you don’t really know what’s going on. So, I don’t see you as an impartial or neutral person in this I also see you as a person taking part in a conflict and even pushing it to other levels. I can understand that Dani did not appreciate that you kind of leaked information, or like, put those sentences there, because then it became apparent to me how, exactly how manipulative this person is, and how and how nasty it is that I can not confront her about this behavior. So from my point of view I can not see any kind of good will action in what you did, and there are already groups that function according to certain structures in order to give support for instance, one basic thing is to ask the person you want to support, how they would like to be supported, so either Dani, or me, but not just to jump in and say that “okay, this is how things are, and therefor you should do this and you should do that” but this is not mediation this is kind of putting yourself in the center of it instead of seeing … the other persons that are there. That’s from my perspective what’s going on with this conflict and your role in it.

Stacy: Okay, I can accept that. The only request Dani wanted me to relate to you is that you should leave him the fuck alone. That’s what he said.

Milla: Yeah, I’ve heard that on other occasions as well, but many different ideas of how things should go, so …

Stacy: And I would really do that, but if he doesn’t change within a reasonable period of time you could start asking him or confront him, about his slow progress. You know, anarchy relies on trusting people. I don’t think you are trusting him with his personal process at all.

Milla: I think, from my perspective, that I feel like I’m not being seen as a person as an emotional being in this. I feel I’ve been really disrespected by the things that you’ve been saying and doing and that has been really hurtful and insensitive, and that this kind of process that you feel that Dani should have, that you’re not allowing me that same thing, because you see me to be in a privileged position in relation to Dani. Dani who has the harmful sexist behavior that then has affected me in a certain way. And then when I break free from it and all kinds of emotional reactions and whatnot come out of me then I am the bad person who should not push Dani into a corner by saying like “Shit, I’m so upset by all this kind of injustice, and disrespect that I was exposed to, and I want to be able to talk with this person about it” especially when Dani is calling herself a feminist to other women, and at the same time telling me that I can not confront her on those issues because she “doesn’t label” herself.

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