Hetero-Man in Poly-Power-Trip Land

by Cunt Incognita (Fisse in Denmark)

In the picture: Dániel Vázsonyi. Hetero Man in Poly Power Trip Land. A guy who knows all the tricks of the Everyday Male Chauvinism booklet. And doesn't hesitate to use them.

I’m pissed off. I’m pissed off that I can live so long with total madness going on. Wallowing in self-hatred. Taking in all the bad and harsh words said about me. Doubting that I’m worth love. Sticking with idiotic and unsupportive arguments about Dániel Vázsonyi aka HeteroMan claiming that I’ve sexually assaulted her and that she very much “would like to work towards not hurting people”.. Right.. I’ve heard that one before..

She’s made it fairly clear that women she chooses to have intimate relations with don’t fit into her definition of “people”. Here’s some of the latest discussion with Pre Kaarina on the forum.

FROM ME TO PK:

dani wrote:

Quote:
she can say that i acted sexist to women in my life numerous times, because that is true and i caused considerable damage to some women in my life which i feel bad for and would like to work towards not hurting ppl, but what i clearly dont want is Millas “counsel” or “detective work” or anything else related to my relations…

i mean. it’s so fucked up that the guy is once again saying: “yeah i’m sexist.”

and STILL no accountability whatsoever.

and not saying shit about that she actually caused me severe harm. and that she IS hurting women (and lying to them). she’s saying that she “would like to work towards not hurting ppl”. but she’s not saying that she IS working towards not hurting people.

this would be the same as me saying that i “would like not to drink” but continue drinking… [and I’m NOT drinking anymore BTW]

i AM hurt by this guy not wanting to hear me out on the harms she caused me.
this IS something she could do in order not to harm more women.

but what does she do?

cry “rape”.. and saying that i shouldn’t network or share realities and experiences with other women she’s involved with.. hmm scratch

i mean. this guy is BULLSHITTING you, and you are just licking it up.. great..

FROM PK TO ME:

milla wrote:
Dani is actively abusing and lying to women.
How about having the meeting filmed in Copenhagen?

The media where you portray this issue is irrelevant. Do you have proof of him actively abusing and lying to women now and what is his excuse for doing that?

That is a very heavy card you are holding here.

FROM ME TO PK:

i guess i will have to dig out all the chats i’ve had with people and publish.

what kind of “proof” would keep you satisfied?

that a woman in tampere that dani started a relation with without saying that there was something else going on with others?

that this woman was saying later on that she was jealous with a woman in germany but that it wasn’t so bad, cause dani isn’t having any other relations going on..? while at the same time the woman from germany is spending 3 weeks with dani who tries to emotionally pressure her into not calling dani “friend” cause this would feel degrading to dani and lessen their intimate relation (a relation that dani is saying is non-existent to the women in tampere)?

would this be enough proof?

and i guess my word on that i haven’t raped or coerced dani to sleeping with me isn’t enough for you to believe that this is a lie?

i could show you the letter where she openly writes that she doesn’t care to hear me out on abusive behavior and that she doesn’t care how i feel about the abuse she’s exposed me to? would this be proof enough that the words that you quoted are bullshit? that she would “like to work on not hurting ppl” isn’t true?

what kind of “proof” are you looking for?

mind you. i only have the words of women here. no reliable good sturdy hardworking men to do any witnessing. [sarcasm]

FROM PK TO ME:

milla wrote:
that a woman in tampere that dani started a relation with without saying that there was something else going on with others?

that this woman was saying later on that she was jealous with a woman in germany but that it wasn’t so bad, cause dani isn’t having any other relations going on..? while at the same time the woman from germany is spending 3 weeks with dani who tries to emotionally pressure her into not calling dani “friend” cause this would feel degrading to dani and lessen their intimate relation (a relation that dani is saying is non-existent to the women in tampere)?

would this be enough proof?

This would serve for lying and cheating.

milla wrote:
and i guess my word on that i haven’t raped or coerced dani to sleeping with me isn’t enough for you to believe that this is a lie?

Yes it is, but that is not an ongoing thing.

milla wrote:
i could show you the letter where she openly writes that she doesn’t care to hear me out on abusive behavior and that she doesn’t care how i feel about the abuse she’s exposed me to?

It would prove that your tactic is not working, which I have been saying all along.

milla wrote:
would this be proof enough that the words that you quoted are bullshit? that she would “like to work on not hurting ppl” isn’t true?

Definitely he has hurt the woman in Tampere if you can prove the discussion.

Sarcasm ignored, you don’t know much about work.

FROM ME TO PK:

i mean. i’m definitely not happy when i read what you write “you suck. how you talk and behave and everything about you sucks”.. like. “thanks, pre kaarina. that’s really constructive..” [sarcasm]

also that you write all these inconsistent things such as

Quote:
I am terrified of what males pushed into corners are capable of doing. I might get tar and feathers -treatment just by standing by you. So, any peace loving person stays the heck far from you.

any “peace loving” person stays away from me, because of fear of male aggression… hmm Laughing so as long as the terror balance is intact and we know who’s the boss we are all living lovingly in “peace” with one another.. No don’t think so..

are you afraid of Dani? you keep repeating that she will use violence if i continue speaking about my feelings and my experiences. you keep repeating that there will be violence if i speak. have you talked with Dani about this fear you have?

FROM ME TO PK:

The first chat I had with Kelly, a woman living in Tampere that Dani is involved with. Around July 8 or 9, 2009 I contacted her in spite of Dani not wanting us to meet up. We arranged on having a meeting (me, Kelly, Kelly’s friend Katie and Dani) In the chat it becomes clear that Dani has not warned Kelly about having severely abusive behaviors in intimate relations. Nor has she informed Kelly about other intimate relations, or saying anything about being polyamorous.

Kelly —
hey

hm.. you where wondering why i want to meet just the two of us.. well,
i feel i would feel more comfortable in the meeting with all of us
invoved if i had so sort of a connection built to you and would also
want to hear your points of view before you meet daniel too because it
seems there could be much tention in that situation

— Milla
hello. didn’t see you.
okay.
i guess i feel pretty uncomfortable about the whole meeting in itself.

Kelly —
well it seems you have concern about the thing so maybe its good to
talk it through

— Milla
like pretty unsafe.
well. i feel that daniel has a lot of abusive behavior.
and that she’s been lying and stuff about our relations.
was crying a lot today.
and i just wish i would have known more from the beginning.
so i wouldn’t have been so fooled.

Kelly —
thats what i really want to hear more about cause i havent seen any
abusiveness in him towards me

— Milla
well. it’s easy in the beginning.

Kelly —
so i want to hear what has he done to make you feel this

— Milla
but it comes after some time.
what has she said about me?
could you say something about that?

Kelly —
well to me it seems that he doesnt really know himself what has he
done to make you talk about him like that..

— Milla
wow…

Kelly —
atleast to me it seemed like that

— Milla
has she said anything about Annie?

Kelly —
well some
but not that much

— Milla
they were together for three years.

Kelly —
i would really like to hear out from him what was the thing that went wrong

— Milla
she was really getting into self-hatred and bulimia when being in the
relation with daniel.
i guess maybe you should talk with her.

Kelly —
hmm..
maybe i should

— Milla
yes.

Kelly —
what did he actually do.. do you know

— Milla
i think it’s better to hear the her version than daniels..
psychological abuse.
being nasty.
punishing her for loving.
like i don’t know that much.
but i think. like you have her email.
like should i give her email to you?

Kelly —
well you can

— Milla
would you contact her?

Kelly —
i would consider that yes

— Milla
annie@gmail.com
she’s really lovely. nice.

Kelly —
i have no concern about daniels behavior myself but since you seem
really concerned about it i want to know more

— Milla
it’s really strange to me that she doesn’t talk with you about her own
abusive behavior.

has she said anything?
and she doesn’t understand her own violent behavior towards me?

Kelly —
i have tried to ask about these things that you talk about.. but he
doesnt say much

— Milla
like what kind of response?
did you check the link i sent through facebook?

[i sent this link to her: http://www.stop-ferfieroszak.hu/news/57/52.html]

Kelly —
well nothing concrete.. thats what id like to know

— Milla
the link that i put on your facebook page today.

Kelly —
didnt have time to read it yet im just looking at it now

— Milla
if you read that thing through. then you would be able to talk with
daniel about the behavior that she recognizes herself in.
this way you would be able to recognize it before she starts doing it to you.

Kelly —
so i just download the book.. or open some link

— Milla
and if she would say herself openly what she sees in herself. then you
would also be better prepared.
yes. you press the pdf link.
could print it out.
talk about the different examples bit by bit with d.

Kelly —
wow thats lots of text.. will take time for me to read that

— Milla
you could skip the intro text. even though it’s good to read if you
don’t know so much about power relations between men and women.
but there are really short examples coming after the long intro.
they are simple to read.
have you been in a relation with a man before?
like no need to answer.
more that it’s easier to understand the examples if you have previous
experience.

Kelly —
i just broke up a year ago with my boyfriend who i had been with for two years

— Milla
but i guess it’s enough if you have some father or brother or other guy around..

Kelly —
with page should i start from so i dont have to read the whole thing

— Milla
i’ll have a look.

about page 17 or something like that.

that’s where the examples start.

you could read it together with d. and then compare experiences.

from being oppressed and oppressive.

i don’t know. like daniel said that she was interested in katie as well.

i guess i could talk with you both before talking with daniel.

don’t really see why i should talk only with you.

(like i’m not being negative towards you wanting to make a connection.
just that i don’t get it logically. why just you and me.)

Kelly —
well its not katie having an intimate relationship with daniel so i
dont actually see any reason to bring her into the conversation at
all.. but you seem to want to

— Milla
well. i guess. since daniel said that she has interest in exploring
with katie as well, then it would make sense to get to talk with her as
well. for me at least.

like anybody that daniel would be interested in. should be aware of
her behavior.

Kelly —
well i dont see that he would want to explore katie in that way.. we
see a lot the three of us and katie is a really close friend of mine
but the relationship between daniel and katie is purely friendship so i
dont see any reason to talk about daniels behaviour in intimate
relations with her

— Milla
hmm. do you have a gmail account?

it would be easier to copy paste chats that i’ve had with daniel.

Kelly —
no
ive only got hotmail

— Milla


me: well. i’m always going against the “hard places” head on towards
confrontation with whatever feels uncomfortable.
but don’t honestly know if i would like to face
jealousy and not being chosen
after big time mega rejections
it wouldn’t feel fun at all.
i don’t know.

3:26 AM Dániel: you dont even know Kelly…
i mean you were ok with Lotte werent you? in this jealousy sense
(although Lotte said afterwards that she felt i was “preferring you”
in Helsinki or you being more interesting or something)
also its not only Kelly, but Katie

— Milla
but daniel was saying as well that she hadn’t gotten to know katie that
well in vilnius.

and also that she thought that you two (you and katie) were exploring
love with each other.

so i guess this is the reason why i would have wanted to talk with katie as well.

since to me. there’s been interest expressed on daniels side.

on the other hand she kind of changes opinion back and forth. like
with me she’s really been weird.

Kelly —
well its strange cause we talked about this and he said he didnt have
any interest of that sort

— Milla
well. there are a lot of strange things about daniel…

you should probably talk with annie.

she would probably have better info for you on what to watch out for.

but i still think a good prevention would be to go through the text with daniel.

with behavior that she already has recognized in herself.

talk it through. this way you would be more prepared.

Kelly —
yep i think i want to talk to her

— Milla
me too…

Razz

Kelly —
its just so weird getting into the middle of this.. i didnt know about
you and daniel having anything intimate before and the whole thing
about there being something wrong with his behaviour seems so foreing
to me

— Milla
she didn’t talk about us?

are you into polyamory?

Kelly —
not before you really started to ask about the meeting
i knew that he had been there there to help you but not that you had
anything intimate

— Milla
wow…

Kelly —
yep i had to ask that myself as it seemed after having read some
things that you have written that you had something

— Milla
like… i don’t know what to say…

this is really strange…

and about polyamory?

are you into it?

Kelly —
hm… im not really sure if i would be longterm.. but i think exploring is ok

— Milla
has daniel told you about her other relations?

Kelly —
just have to be carefull not to do it in a hurtfull way if youre in a
relationship
just janet and annie

— Milla
not that she’s involved with a woman called Lotte?

and had intimate relations with a woman called hajni and maria just
untill recently?

Kelly —
well i did ask if he had any of that sort of interest in her and he
said no..
maybe its just to please me.. saying hes only got interest
in me when it may not be so
he did tell about someone.. who owns the common flat.. didnt give a name though

— Milla
yes. the guy is lying to you.

she’s polyamorous.

has relations with more women.

Kelly —
he doesnt really talk about this.. i think i have to bring it up.. i
knew it cause its on the blog but hes not talking about it

— Milla
well. it seems that we’re going to have an interesting meeting…

Kelly —
he said something about Lotte having a boyfriend though
well seems theres lots of stuff i have to talk about with him

— Milla
yes.

i was pretty taken in by daniel as well.

like i still have some love for her.

but hearing what she’s said to you.

and also what she hasn’t said.

i’m just sitting here.

kind of: what the hell…

Kelly —
its really strange to me too cause we talk a lot.. but still he hasnt
talked about this stuff

— Milla
and this should be kind of the first things to talk about when getting
involved with someone…

Kelly —
i quess i should talk this through with him now before i get completely tired

— Milla
she said that you are borderline

is this true?

cause daniel is referring to herself as borderline lately.

and i guess i don’t really know wht that means.

she said that you had this in common.

Kelly —
well yes i have my problems

— Milla
i guess i’m asking cause i’m just trying to figure this guy out.

been trying for several months.

i see clear sexist behavior.

and that she can be really mean and dominant.

and definitely a person who gets controlling in intimate relations.

so it’s something to watch out for for sure.

it affected me really badly.

as well as annie (having to deal with it for 3 years)

i’m happy i went all nuts. and started to contact you.

maybe you can be a bit better prepared.

Kelly —
well im taking it slowly anyway.. have had experience of being hurt by men

— Milla
(maybe not nuts.. more like sane. i went sane all of a sudden..)

daniel is *not* a safe person for intimate feelings.

this is what annie told me.

and this is my own experience with her.

i hope i will make sense when meeting up.

Kelly —
yep i hope i get some kind of an understanding about this then
now its just hard to know whats true

— Milla
(maybe just that all guys are really weird…)

what do you mean. hard to know whats true?

Kelly —
well is it true that daniel has done nothing severe as it seems to me
after having talked to him about this or that he actually has done
something as i can see from your posts

— Milla
well. she has a lot of problematic behavior.

and if you read the text.

then you can talk about behavior that daniel sees in herself.

like the name of the text being “violence in intimate relations that
is not called violence”

she uses these forms of domination

also that she didn’t say anything about her other relations to you is
kind of dishonest.

like really not cool.

Kelly —
yep i find it stange
strange

— Milla
not only strange.

but something you have a right to be upset and angry about.

Kelly —
mm.. i really have to talk to him now
lets hope we have a fruitfull meeting

— Milla
tell her greetings from me. the radical feminist.

Kelly —
ok

— Milla
i wish you luck.

take care ❤

Kelly —
it was really nice talking to you Smile

— Milla
same here.

i feel safer meeting up with you.

Kelly —
see you soon

— Milla
nice that you talked with me.

bye bye.

Kelly —
bye

FROM ME TO PK:

At the meeting in Tampere I put pressure on Dani to join the Stop Male Violence group in Budapest. At the meeting she was saying she wouldn’t do it because of me and because of the reason of how I had felt in relation to her. I said that she should do it because of Kelly, out of care for her. We agreed on that Dani would write a letter to the group within two weeks, and that Kelly and I would add our statements because they were very different from Dani’s (male supremacist) perception of reality.

Eventually >> Dani broke the agreement we made in Tampere on how to contact the group. Saying, when i contacted her about it, that it was none of my business what she was doing with the group.

Later in a conversation with Lotte, Dani was saying that she had joined the group because I had told her to.

Below is Kelly’s statement written to the men’s group, sent to me on July 24, 2009:


I’m a woman living in Finland and I’m starting a relationship with
Daniel. At first i didn’t see anything disturbing, but then Milla who
had been in intimate relations with Daniel, contacted me.

Milla sent me the text about everyday male chauvinism and I read it.
Through Milla I also heard a lot of things that Daniel hadn’t told me
and wich I found very important things to discuss about. I felt lied
to by Daniel. Thinking what was the reason for not telling those
things. Not telling about being polyamorous was especially hurtfull
since I’ve never been in a polyamorous relationship and haven’t had to
deal with the thought. I found this out though a blog Milla is
writing. Through her i heard things that Daniel had left unsaid about
past relationships. I also felt like being a tool to emprove relations
to other people.

Though there have been missunderstandings about holding important
information, he is very open to talk about these things. He recognizes
behaviour patterns so he has the power and will to chance them.


So. Dani is not only convincing Kelly that she wants to deal with oppressive behaviors while at the same time >> shitting all over my feelings. But also..

In a chat with Kelly in September, it is clear that Dani is still lying to her about her other relations.

In some of the chats a “talking stick”
is being used with this sign >> –
the stick is passed on every time someone has
finished speaking to pass the word to the other.

Short comments, questions or answers
to questions while the other is speaking
is marked with >> %

Chat on September 30, 2009 with Kelly.

20:21Milla

can you accept polyamory?


20:35Kelly

i’ve never been in a polyamorous relationship before so its completely new to me but im open towards it and exploring on it..
20:37Kelly

and daniel is also making me feel safer about it, redusing my fears and little by little feeling what i feel about it.. i still have a lot of stuff to deal with about jealousy
20:39Kelly

but i really dont know how i would actually react if he would start a relationship with someone else, i cant really predict that
20:39Milla

%hmm. you mean start another/new relation? cause she’s already involved with more people.
20:41Kelly

well there’s nothing really actively going on.. something that i would feel jealous about

I met with Lotte in Berlin in October, and the relationship that Dani had been denying from the start when talking to Kelly has been ongoing throughout. In fact, Lotte had spent 3 weeks with Dani talking about their relation, and Dani had put pressure on Lotte not to call Dani a “friend” because she felt that that would be lessening the meaning of their intimate connection. Dani was threatening with breaking off contact with Lotte if Lotte would continue calling Dani a friend. (Which for Lotte wouldn’t mean that they couldn’t have an intimate relation).

More about the talk with Lotte here:

https://sosiaalikeskus.wordpress.com/2009/10/25/sick-of-petyas-excuses-sure-take-your-time/

Once again I repeat Kelly’s believes about Dani from July:
“Though there have been missunderstandings about holding important
information, he is very open to talk about these things. He recognizes
behaviour patterns so he has the power and will to chance them.

Dani denied being polyamorous in the beginning with Kelly. And denies the nature of the relation with myself, and Lotte.

Still in September Kelly is under the impression that there are no other relations going on..

“He recognizes behaviour patterns so he has the power and will to change them”.

Dani is saying to you Pre Kaarina that she would “like to work on not hurting ppl

but to me – a woman deeply degraded and hurt by her behaviors in an intimate relation with her – on October 30, 2009 she’s replying to the question:

– what is she concretely doing to make it feel safe for me to talk
about my feelings in relation to the abusive behaviors she’s had
towards me?

i dont care if you feel safe and i dont want to hear how you feel about anything i did

instead she writes to you that i’ve “raped” her. (still lying to Kelly. still hurting people. not working on it.)

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2 Responses

  1. […] Filed under: > Cunt Incognita, .. Morze « Hetero-Man in Poly-Power-Trip Land […]

  2. […] as well as here Poly People I Can Do Without. The chat I had with Kelly can be read here: Hetero Man In Poly Power Trip Land MORE COMMENTS ON DANIEL’S NEGATIVE REFERENCE: “She is hardcore […]

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