Breaking the silence – Breaking the isolation (dani)

by Cunt Incognita (Pyzda in Vilnius)

broken_phone

Dani in a social network on a broken phone speaking of Love Solidarity Care and Equality.

I would like to highlight the essence of – the way i’ve gotten to understand – dani’s perception and practice of anti-sexism (in response to the question: what is she concretely doing to make it feel safe for me to talk about my feelings in relation to the abusive behaviors she’s had towards me?)

>>

Dániel Vázsonyi, Oct 30 2009:

“i dont care if you feel safe and i dont want to hear how you feel
about anything i did”

>>

For a long time i really wanted to believe that Dani was on the level. That sometime “later” she would listen to me, and be able to talk through the fucked up power relations going on in the connection we had for about a year.

I guess I use this space as a place where i don’t have to be isolated with what she says. It’s so easy to believe all the things you told me Dani, such as: “i love you”, “everybody else hates you”. Now it’s that i “sexually abused” you. You said the same about Hajni. And that your relation with Réka is that you were just in a weird power ‘dialogue’ with one another. And that you ‘couldn’t help’ act the way you do – be viciously mean to her – when she’s ‘submissive’.

You’ve said openly that you respond to desperation. That you seek out women who are emotionally vulnerable, because you ‘respond’ to that.
I’ve been messed up. Slowly waking up to reality (the illusion – “love” “care” “solidarity” “equality” – you promised, never turned real).

I tried to get a meeting with you to talk about the power you had over me, in a setting where i wouldn’t feel totally destroyed and manipulated by your behavior. Yesterday you responded to a mail i sent to you and the Stop Male Violence group about the possible mediated meeting between us. Then shortly after that you responded once more, in private, giving a different tone to what you had said in the official reply.

I will publish the correspondence that followed. Something that I found severely abusive and harmful. And it felt even worse having a men’s group dealing with male socialization ‘witnessing’ it. Not knowing if any of them care, if they will read the correspondence or even see what’s not okay in Dani’s behavior.

Dani has managed to collect a network around her with people willing to deny her harmful behaviors (different versions ranging from: “no sexism there” to “dealing with the sexism” to “too messed up to deal with anything”) and even protect and support her in relation to me. What i’m afraid of is that she’s manipulating the men’s group in the same way as she manipulates other people around her.

So. I’m doing the only thing i feel emotionally works for me at the moment, lacking community support in dealing with this. I write. And i publish. To make it real somewhere. That this is painful. And harming. And just not okay.

I’m so angry. And sad. And sick to my stomach over and over again, that this guy’s words can get to me. That this guy’s reality is supported over and over again.

It’s just sick. That’s what it is. And i refuse getting suicidal over this again.

❤ ❤ ❤   <33    ❤ ❤      ❤

❤ 3  ❤ ❤     ❤  <33

❤ ❤       ❤      ❤ [welcome to: a love story made of farts and hearts]

Oct 26, from me to Dani and the Stop Male Violence group. Subject line: “greetings (and resisting sexism)” >>

hello,

this is milla again..

i’m still being an idiot about wanting to confront this guy Dani V.
who is supposedly “working” on her sexism.. dunno what kind of
connection you’re having with the guy, but in real life she’s not
making any noticeable progress (apart from telling women that she’s in
this group, and that she’s a feminist)

[i call everybody she. if you want to know why, read this:
https://sosiaalikeskus.wordpress.com/she/ ]

some of the latest Dani-drama can be read here:
https://sosiaalikeskus.wordpress.com/2009/10/25/sick-of-petyas-excuses-sure-take-your-time/

So when do i get to talk with you about these things with you Dani?
When do you figure would be a good time to deal with your sexism?

milla


ps. i sincerely hope that this guy isn’t manipulating the hell out of
this group in the same way as she’s controlling and mind-fucking the
women around her.

Oct 30, from Dani to me and the group >>

ok… ive been sick mostly laying in bed so i had a lot of time to think things through…
on the last mens group meeting we talked a bit about my issues with you… i (really awkwardly) started to talk about what happened between us back in January… i think the environment there i suitable for me to uncover my traumas… whereas any meeting with you would just deepen it… i cant take you… i dont like it, but everytime i talk to you or see a message on facebook or hear about you from someone i feel sick to my stomach (i guess its all the things coming to me that were hurtful during the time we spent together)
Bert advised me to think through what concrete results would i expect from a mediated meeting and i have only one:
set some boundaries, but since yours involve me caring about you i dont think there is any sense in a mediated meeting… that is my well thought out current opinion…

d

here comes some background correspondence. i’m posting the whole email exchange. but it can also be read from where Dani continues replying on Oct 30 after having written the official response, she replies to me as well in private.

Sept 9, From Dani to me and a person from the Stop Male Violence group. Subject line: “letter” >>

dear Bert, could you mediate a talk between me and milla in the beginning of december?

Sept 27, From Bert to me and Dani >>

I am not in Budapest at the beginning of December. Away from the 24th
November and back earliest 16th of December, maybe some days later.

Bert

Oct 2, From me to Bert and Dani >>

hello,

i have an urgent need to deal with this.

can’t remain calm about it. many feelings. scared of more abuse in the
company of a feminist man. wondering what you do to prevent that? (if
there’s any concrete way of dealing with the aftermath of an abusive
meeting? if there’s any support or way of caring for the person in my
position?)

i could probably meet sometime in january.
(of course it also pisses me off that i’m the one who have to go where
dani is to get this done. while this action is not the least
appreciated nor wanted by her. — and at the same time, i’d like to
find a nice way of stopping the continuous re-living of the shitty
experiences i had with her. there’s hurt upon hurt upon hurt. and
backlashes and fighting in an alcoholic aggressive way to get
recognition of the hurt done. the exhausting emptying fighting to get
her to deal with it. i don’t want to lose more energy on it. i want to
trust that she’s really going to make this meeting happen. stop the
bullshit.)

okay.

bye bye

milla

Oct 2, From me to Bert and Dani >>

hello world..

just feel like passing on (some) info about what is going on to you Bert,

i’ve talked with Kelly, the woman who sent the other statement about
being hurt about dani’s behavior. and we agreed that she would pass on some questions in writing from me to dani. that dani then would reply to in writing and send to Kelly, who would pass it on to me [seems complicated.. but emotionally it works a whole lot better than direct contact..]

so i thought i would share these questions with you. the letter i
wrote to Kelly today:

:::::
:::::

i will have a workshop on monday. hopefully some people will show up for it. so if we could meet around 9:30 your (finnish) time?

====
the questions i have for dani to be passed on by you:

– what is she practically doing to arrange the meeting with Bert?
– what is she concretely doing to make it feel safe for me to talk
about my feelings in relation to the abusive behaviors she’s had
towards me?
– what’s the purpose for her meeting up? (since she said that she’s
just interested in getting rid of me, and that what i say is distorted
and an avalanche of bullshit* – she hasn’t said anything about wanting
to deal with sexism. doesn’t she care to heal wounds caused by her?)

and the question i have for you both:
– how about having a net-meeting where the three of us would meet up and talk about the behaviors that i’ve (in vain) tried to get
discussed with dani. for me it would be an interesting experiment.
cause this would show concretely what i find problematic with dani’s
way of (not) dealing with her behaviors or taking responsiblity for
the harm caused by her in intimate relations. (you Kelly said that you
would like to talk with me cause i can provide info that dani wouldn’t
give you or talk with you about, since you wouldn’t know what to ask
for. this would be a good way of skipping the “broken phone” and make it possible to see for ourselves what the interaction looks and feels like – and you and i Kelly would have something concrete to point at and talk about when we talk with each other about dani’s behaviors)

the only negative thing i could see with this would be that – just as
you said before Kelly, that you didn’t really feel anything about the
letter i had sent to the Stop Male Violence group about my desperate
situation, you said that it felt “natural” – so the only freaky scary
thing in having a talk like this would be that dani would have an
opportunity to be completely abusive and that the two of you would be okay with that since the violence has already been normalized. [i’m speaking openly about how i see and feel about the situation – i’m not saying what i say to “attack” or “harm”. and that’s also a reason to
why i’m really sad about why dani is not taking this seriously.]

* in short putting what i find problematic with dani’s way of not facing this =

she says that my reality is “distorted” and “an avalanche of bullshit”
and dani is saying about herself that “sure i’m sexist. but i don’t
care about you or what you have to say, i don’t want to hear it”

:::
:::

Oct 30, Dani responding to me privately >>

the questions i have for dani to be passed on by you:

– what is she practically doing to arrange the meeting with Bert?

i talked to him in the mens group and sent a mail

– what is she concretely doing to make it feel safe for me to talk
about my feelings in relation to the abusive behaviors she’s had
towards me?

i dont care if you feel safe and i dont want to hear how you feel about anything i did

– what’s the purpose for her meeting up? (since she said that she’s just interested in getting rid of me, and that what i say is distorted and an avalanche of bullshit* – she hasn’t said anything about wanting to deal with sexism. doesn’t she care to heal wounds caused by her?)

no i dont care to heal your wounds… you have to find another way to heal im sorry…
the purpose for meeting up would be to prevent any harm that could be caused IN THE FUTURE… hence setting boundaries (which wouldnt work, cause you want me to care)


and the question i have for you both:
– how about having a net-meeting where the three of us would meet up and talk about the behaviors that i’ve (in vain) tried to get discussed with dani. for me it would be an interesting experiment.
cause this would show concretely what i find problematic with dani’s way of (not) dealing with her behaviors or taking responsiblity for the harm caused by her in intimate relations. (you Kelly said that you would like to talk with me cause i can provide info that dani wouldn’t give you or talk with you about, since you wouldn’t know what to ask for. this would be a good way of skipping the “broken phone” and make it possible to see for ourselves what the interaction looks and feels like – and you and i Kelly would have something concrete to point at and
talk about when we talk with each other about dani’s behaviors)

since Kelly also doesnt want your company i guess this is out of the question aswell… my answer is: no i wouldnt like to talk to you if possible

Oct 31, From me to Dani AND the group >>

hello men,

i still feel highly unsafe when there is something coming from you dani. cause this is something i’ve been left alone with for such a long time. speaking with Lotte helped. (against your complaints about me contacting people you know – as if you own them)

the only reason you sent the mail to Bert was because after you had promised to make this happened it took about two weeks with no sign whatsoever on that you would do what you said that you would do. so i contacted you through chat.

and even wrote the sentense that you passed on to Bert. to show you that it’s not that complicated to fulfill your promises.

lately i’ve been supporting a woman of color pointing out and
resisting racism within radical feminist circles.
https://sosiaalikeskus.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/racism-and-backstabbing-white-supremacist-feminism/

when i started supporting her, i realized all the shit you did to me. making the comparison. that i could never in my life see myself behave in the same way that you’ve been behaving towards me (just coming on to me in a sleazy way, trying out sexual positions, talking about love and in practice meaning control [you] and submissive caring behaviors [me] with no responsibility whatsoever on your side to put in action
“love” “care” “solidarity” or “equality”)

if i would show solidarity and support in the same way to this woman as you’ve shown me i would have to kill myself. (or at least start doing something about my fucked up ways and hopefully take in the pain and hurt that i’ve caused)

you’re a big ass liar.

and i don’t really trust the group either in taking this shit seriously.

i’ve totally alone in this. that’s been the worst part.
having to put up with your shit all alone.
thinking that i was alone with it.
even though you repeat the same pattern with all the women (it’s not only me you don’t care about. it’s all of us).

you can’t go on like this.
being full of blaming self-pity.
continuing doing harm.

so much for solidarity and support.
so much for love.

milla

Oct 31, From me to Dani and the group >>

hello men,

AND i think it’s absolutely fucked up that you, dani, answered these questions separately, only sending the stuff to me

“no i don’t care to heal your wounds” and “i wouldn’t like to talk with you if possible”

well. for me. it would still be healing (possibly) to be able to (for once) sit in the same space and get full (or at least some!) support in what i’ve been trying to tell you for so long.

i asked Lotte if she would be interested in joining a meeting. she doesn’t know. but there’s a possibility that there would be more than one person there hurt by you at this meeting (from my point of view i don’t see why this wouldn’t be possible or “traumatizing” “harming” for you..) since we recognize the same harmful patterns in your behavior.

anyhow. thought it was Fucked Up of you to respond to this
“privately”, when i stated clearly in the original statement that
there was an agreement on passing this through other ppl / witnesses cause “seems complicated.. but emotionally it works a whole lot better than direct contact”

you still don’t get shit about your fucked up emotional and
controlling games. and i guess that’s why you would prefer not to have a “traumatizing” (poor man..) meeting with me. cause it might just be enlightening for you. and not possible to shamelessly continue your domination games pretending that you “just don’t have a clue”.


Milla

Oct 31, From Dani to me and the group >>

i also dont feel comfortable when you contact me and thats just what happened a few days ago…
the complaints about contacting other ppl come from the fact that i get replies from some of these ppl that they feel USED, cause you dont care about anything or anybody apart from “milking” (your wonderful term applied to me from before) them for some “solidarity” and i feel STALKED, cause you flooded my mailbox, facebook account and have a regular news feed on my life over your blog not to mention try to systematically map my friends for “support”
so yes i dont own them you can do as you feel like, but i can
say: LEAVE ME THE FUCK ALONE!

Oct 31, From Dani to me and the group >>

Kelly the person who sent this mail to me said she doesnt want to talk to you anymore and the other recipient was Bert and not the group… i dont know about the group, but Bert was very clear: he is not interested in having a mediated meeting with only one person agreeing and having a clear aim with it… so your solution is what happened many times before: shout at me that im an asshole for not listening to you… maybe the difference being: “with support”
i can only tell you what i told you before: i dont want to talk to an obssesed, alcoholic stalker, who thinks i should go kill myself, writes sarcastic messages in my name, uses my friends, sexually abuses me, wants to take out lifelong traumas on me and shits on my feelings….
yes this was all traumatizing to me you FUCKING, INSENSITIVE; ASS…
go and take the “Milla-drama” elsewhere…


d

Oct 31, From me to Dani and the group >>

hello men,

since i have a problem with sexually abusive behaviors

i would like to be confronted on this (and i’m seriously wondering
what this stop male violence group is about?!)

maybe the men would like to support dani in confronting the oppressive
women around her?

this is not a “milla” drama.
this is STILL about you not wanting to deal with your oppressive
behaviors in relation to women.

if there’s any man from the group who does not feel this is a
“private” matter. “between dani and me”. please do, contact me.

i wouldn’t mind support. in feeling alone with this. (and yes. i fully
admit to having been aggressive towards you dani. i wish this could go
both ways some time. accountability. not giving me the chance to
confront you in a way i possibly would feel supported and not totally
trashed by you and your blatant display male supremacist behaviors.)

and i stick with this message:
you are harming the women you are with. it’s not only in my head. get that.


Milla

Oct 31, From me to Dani and the group >>

hello men,

i missed the first message. just read the second one.

like. cool that you are sharing this with the group, dani. cause
before it was only you and me.

and i felt really alone with this. and i still do. and i drink. and i walk the streets and wonder why the fuck there’s no community support in this. i wonder why the fuck you should be left unchallenged and to deal with your supremacist behaviors (that you don’t even recognize but in a lot of cases ‘reverse’) “by yourself”.

you have no idea how isolated i’ve felt. you have no idea what that isolation does to a woman. a woman emotionally depedent and in love.
(i repeat. it’s not only me. you do this to all of us.) you encouraged me first when i was challenging you on your behaviors in intimate relations to contact your other partners that they are all okay with you and see you as a loving caring person. and when i did. and when i got support in not being totally crazy with my perception and my experiences with you. then you say i’m harming your friends. (the friends you’ve repeatedly said you don’t have. so i don’t know who you are referring to)

yeah. sure you would love for me to be the type who would turn this all inside and end up hating myself. but no. i get aggressive. and fucked up. and act out.

you are not an innocent victim in this.

i’m a woman capable of articulating the (your) abuse. and you should hear me out.

milla

Oct 31, From me to Dani and the group >>

hello Men,

since i don’t know if you will read through dani’s answers to the questions i had, i thought i could highlight the essence of – they way i’ve gotten to understand – dani’s perception and practice of anti-sexism:

>>

Dániel Vázsonyi, Oct 30 2009:

“i dont care if you feel safe and i dont want to hear how you feel
about anything i did”

>>

something to deal with?

i’m sick shit of manipulation. and no fucking support. this guy broke
me down emotionally/psychologically. i don’t know if this group is
just like these misogynist men’s groups in finland that just sit and
complain about how oppressed men are by women. and especially feminist
women being into this “man hatred” and dominating men. [from dani’s
point of view, this is what it sounds like to me at least.]

i would like to hear from the group if you have a policy with how you
deal with abusive behaviors from the people in your group. and how
come dani thinks this group is so great — if she just gets support
in feeling sorry for herself, and continuing abusing women (i repeat:
not only me.)

milla


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Sick of Petya’s excuses (sure, take your time..)

by Cunt Incognita (Pyzda in Vilnius)

This blog post was written after yet another tiring talk with Petya, who previously said she’s okay with having any conversation published on this blog. It ended with her – as usual – promising to deal with my personal matters ‘later’. After she’s finished dealing with the real important POLITICAL stuff. Apparently until all injustice in the world has been fought, she will not have time to deal with this ‘private hate thing’ of mine [wanting to confront Dani on her sexism] that I seem to be stuck with all by myself.

In this last conversation at least she came out – fully admitting that she sees no sexism in Dani’s behavior. And that she as a (male) feminist has a right to make that judgement and shush me up until she finds an appropriate time slot between making quizzes and fighting important political struggles.

This is not the first conversation we’ve had on this matter.

This blog post was written as a response – in order for there to be a place where she can later deal with some of the questions I’ve brought forward. Let’s see how long it will take this time to get a reply..? The comment-slots are empty and waiting.. 🙂

Petya testing how well she knows Dani on Facebook.

Petya testing how well she knows Dani on Facebook.

So. I’m sick shit of everything. I have good moments. Here and there. Talk and meet with sane and aware people. But most of the time it’s: Conflict.

Dani – the sexist asshole who’s been writing on this blog – is still in Male Supremacist Heaven. Avoiding all accountability for any harms done to women, while at the same time continuing doing harm. I tried to speak with a recent victim, but she’s chosen to “kill the messenger” and I can’t deal with that attitude anymore. That whenever a lie told by Dani comes out in the open, I’m being targeted as the reason for the bad feeling (by just delivering the truth..) Even though that relation started with us meeting, and the woman openly saying that Dani says “mean” things. And confuses her – avoiding to answer questions. For instance not telling anything about having abusive patterns in intimate relations or omitting the fact that she’s involved with several women. Anyhow: We’ve now reached a point of common interest. Not feeling okay in the connection and breaking it off. (I can’t live with denial. And – apparently – this woman is not ready to face the ugly truth.)

I had a nice talk with another woman, also intimately involved with Dani, we shared a common ground somehow. Both been in love and duped. This woman had recently spent three weeks with Dani who during this time tried to convince her that she would be creating a “hierarchy” between another man/love interest and Dani if she would choose to be friends (and not lovers) with Dani. This really reminds me of the same arguments used by the two sectish men moving around in the same social scene as Dani in Budapest – promoting that children should have sex with one another, and that women should share physical intimacy with all and everyone [read: men..] otherwise they would be “unfair” and “create hierarchies” and “oppression against men”… I guess strip joints and pornography is all about equality then.. using the same arguments..

Dani also added the dimension of emotional pressure: That either this woman works on being “fair” or there’s no relation whatsoever… Cool guy, huh?

[this was my understanding of our conversation. after asking the woman if she felt misinterpreted in this blog post text she said that – as she had understood Dani – that Dani opposed being called “friend” because she sees “friend” as being lower in the relationship hierarchy, and she feels degraded being called “friend”. Dani wanted to be seen as having an intimate relation with this woman on its own terms, not in hierarchy to the relation that the woman is having to the other man. <comment by the woman: i was also talking about an intimate relation of some sort. but for me it wasnt a problem calling it just ‘friendship’> and yes, Dani was putting pressure on her to not call her “friend” and not to in general choose to put the relation to the other person in front of the relation to her. this woman was trying to make clear that it was not in relation to ‘getting sex’, and didn’t think that Dani’s logic could be compared to the ‘budapest sex sect men’. and adding my own note on Dani’s way of relating to the relation between this woman and the other man has been to state that that relation looks like the typical relation where they are about to break up – that “they just don’t know it yet”. and in february this year Dani was passing on the Everyday Male Chauvinism text, telling this woman she should read it in relation to the other man – never bothering to tell her that Dani herself are having problems with the same type of behavior described in the text…]

Any objections on calling this guy out on her shit?

— Yes! Plenty!

This is once again seen as a personal a-political private matter where the truth on abuse is not seen to be told in order to improve and develop and heal but instead is interpreted as “hate” and “blame” and “attacks” coming ‘out of the blue’ — No-where… Apparently I have no clue what the hell I’m talking about. Dani is claiming that my reality is “distorted” and an “avalanche of bullshit”. And when speaking with other love interests she plays innocent and gives hints on this being all about me being jealous and rejected…[No Dani. This is about you not wanting to talk about sexism!]

Whatever it takes not to have to deal with it for real.. Always easier to blame the shit on the person trying to get some serious discussion going..

petya2petyafinal

Milla

hello. just checking. that you got the mail?

with the questions in the last chat?

you said you would answer.

didn’t receive any answers yet.

(concerning that thing with sexism and oppression going on within this “circle of friends”)

19:03Milla

and i hope you are not ignoring me now because you assume that i’m asking this in the “wrong tone”.

cause that just makes you look really unsupportive of this.

19:10Lőrincz

Milla i’m don’t ignoring YOu. I’M sitting in front the computer 10-15 hours daily and working on the festival, and beside that i’M responsible for some other actions. we had a screeing in the Infoshop related to Global Day of Climate Change Actiom- http://www.350.org, next week we are making some direct actions related to international vegan action week-so please be patienet with me 🙂:)

19:11Milla

you promised to answer questions many times.

you’ve lied to me.

i’ve been VERY patient

and you were really diminishing in the last chat.

saying that you can’t talk with me because

i’m speaking in the “wrong way”

being “emotional”

when you are totally emotional hiding and lying.

you will always come up with some excuse not to talk this through.

you will always come up with pitiful excuses not to answer my DIRECT questions, and make it seem like it’s MY FAULT that YOU are not answering..

or will you?

19:13Lőrincz

soory. I’m t”ravelling” to my vacation cca. 2,5 months, so i’m stocked here ’cause my work.-i’m crazy busy, sorry. But you can missunderstand it, if you want, but i’ll now really silent, ’cause have crazy deadlines now. Then i will reply to YOur mail with question. To that i say, hello-not cause i don’T like you(cause i like you) but because i am crazy busy. Hello, see you as soon as possible.

19:14Milla

will you deal with this with the seriousness that this requires?

BULLSHIT

and im sick of being treated like this.

19:16Lőrincz

then you can helpme with the festival preparation. There is lot of work and lot of people who needs a care-you can youse your energy and creativity….

19:17Milla

are you saying that you will only care about sexism if i “sleep with you”?

19:18Milla

just come out with it. you are sexist. and dani is sexist. and you are not bothered by it. and you don’t really care.

dani STRANGLED a woman

19:19Lőrincz

but we didn’t slept together…i’m don’t use sleep with people with who we aren’t in serious relatiohship, etc….this example is out of my practical life, can threat it just with some empaty, but no experience with this kind of truth

19:19Milla

dani strangled a woman and you dont really care..

19:20Lőrincz

because i try to care

1, for my fauls and stupidity

19:20Milla

maybe it’s a language problem?

do you understand that word “strangle” what it means?

19:21Lőrincz

2, i am related in the ngo who cares for political opressed people and this involvance took a majority of my time and energy

19:21Milla

you’re lying about you caring about this. and i’m sick about your blaming attitude.

19:21Lőrincz

3, if i have some time-energy remains, i’m going to working in some social projects-caryyin for poors/homeless

19:21Milla

hi 5-ing dani..

19:22Lőrincz

nd 4, organizing festival ’bout that lifestyle

19:22Milla

you just made a quiz on how well you know dani. why did you take time to do that. and what was the purpose of that?

19:23Milla

hypocrite

why is dani’s abuse of women and me my own personal problem?

19:24Lőrincz

5, and don’t have time for my own “personal life”…and really don’t feeling myself as the able person for “smashing” Dani with you, cause 1, i have total different point of view related Dani. Soory. I really like you, but at that question we have a really diffrent point of wievs, and now i have to going back to blogmaking. Have a nice day, i hope, that i can ansver to your mail soon.

19:24Milla

shouldn’t all other oppressioni also be everybody’s individual problem.

“When a person of privilege is accused of having been negligent (or racist, or sexist, or…), a classic move we often see is the accused dissolving into sobs. They will berate themselves, they will proclaim how terrible they feel, they will soak your t-shirt with their tears. In other words, instead of owning up for whatever they did and focusing on the pain they caused – and how to reduce it – they completely focus on their own pain. In fact, they revel in it.”

you are full of bullshit

petya seriously

you’re sooo full of bullshit

19:41Lőrincz

Milla i guess, that i have a right to decide how many time and how many energy know to put in several things. I am sorry, i am really very busy know. I understand You, and know that YOu are fighting for very important reasons, but eventually(for example tiday) i’m unable to particitae on this.) I would like ti ask you for tolerance the habit of “my ” virtual space-as my facebook wall is. It’s place for communication with my loved ones-no place for fights, anger, hate. Please tolerate it,and solve you hate towards Dani on other space-if it’s possible without me. Just because i observed, that you are hating him, and i don’t want to participate on shareing the hate. But you have a right for it. this you r life and Your responsibility. SO: now i’m really going back to working, please tolerate it, and accept my ask related to my facebook wall. Thank You, let see each other after the finishing my crazy working period.

19:42Milla

Are YOU okay with her strangling a woman?

you still haven’t answered this question.

it’s a REALLY simple question.

strangle means to put your hands around a persons neck and squeeze until they can’t breathe anymore.

(i would call strangling hate. wanting to talk about it and prevent this kind of stuff = LOVE)

i would call ignoring the seriousness of this = HATE

it’s a peace based on men having a right to abuse women

for women that doesn’t mean peace

why are you not answering that simple question? would it make this oppression too real to you?

19:48Milla

this is not a pretend game anymore. it’s not like that state or government being able to promise peace love and properity. “just trust and believe”

you just denied sexism.

and you don’t seem to be willing to explain why you don’t see any sexism.

that’s kind of bad…

19:53Lőrincz

ok. if you will taking out of the my responsibility for the projects here, i promise you, that i will have more than enough time for wondering and writing about sexixm in theory and practice. But this is abut my health Milla. I’m working very lot, please tolerate it, and don’t make a situation when i will forced to really ingnoring you. I like you, but i have to working now. I’m on this facebook now ’cause i’m “negotiationg” with some voluntary groups and one movie producer guy here. I will search for You when i will time and energy. Can we agree like this? As two nice, responsible presones. Without agression, with acept and tolerance to personalitys and schedule and personal freedom of each other?

19:53Milla

you are shutting a feminist woman up by stating that there is no sexism and that you can say that because you are a FEMINIST..

not a very feminist thing to do..

19:55Milla

you are FULL OF AGGRESSION in your behavior. DENIAL the harms of sexism. DENIAL of the existence of sexism. that is not “liking me”. unless you see me as a pet and not an equal.

i’ll post this on the blog. and then you can take up the discussion there whenever you “have time”.

fucking denying sexism…

i’m sick of this constant disrespect.

[1] The sound of silence — Dani and Common Walls

by Cunt Incognita (Kunda or Píča in Prague)

blablapolitics

Male violence is ignored and unquestioned.

My mental health is a mess. I’m drinking way too much. Being drunk. Writing stuff on facebook. Losing memory. Worrying about my physical health. Just letting the days pass by. Being in a strange place feeling isolated lost and lonely. My mind is constantly there feeling the edges of these walls of silence. Hard and defensive edges, I search for the cracks, feel them with my fingers. That’s when I get to hear “Aggressive, Pushy”. The wall can’t see itself. And I can’t describe my reality. Saying: “I see a wall”, doesn’t make it any more real or visible for the one carrying and caring for the crackling armor. The energy spent on caring for every little protective stone – there to guard our precious secrets, there to hide the filth and dirt, as well as the beauty. Sometimes we don’t remember why the stone is there, and might make it even more reason to keep it in place – who knows what could emerge!

There are no right ways of pushing through. Touching the cracks can lead a wall to crumble. One crack closes up again, while another gets wider, allowing for some air to seep through. Breathing in and out. No more secrets.

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Wimmin are not listened to or taken seriously within the scene.

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We are easily silenced.

Talking with Pekko (Art&Sexism – Life&Acting)

by Cunt Incognita (Pica in Prague) [she=he]

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From Facebook, Web-community.

Today’s song: My Art by Le Tigre.

I’ve been having many discussions going on at the same time. Trying to understand Dani’s sexism and how she and I and others relate to it, and how it affects our interaction with one another (Power relations on a personal level – hurting like hell). Also starting discussions on the forum on Power and Exclusion within the scene in Finland. As well as age old topics such as: Prostitution [or heterosexual power relations at its core] (which can feel a bit frightening as well, since it’s a discussion with Pre Kaarina and I never know where these talks/conflicts end up – but not giving up the discussion for the fear of losing a newly found friend. As Audre Lorde put it “Your silence will not protect you”..)

Apart from these (few examples) then there’s also been a talk on Art and Sexist Expression with a man called Pekko. I talked about her presenting a zine with material bashing gay men (Miesjuna tuut tuut – Male train beep beep) and the removal of that from Hirvitalo after some complaints from persons visiting the space during Ladyfest. She didn’t like the removal of her speech, and made a picture in response to this, with pornographic photos glued to a paper with text bashing feminists and lesbians. This picture was also removed from the house, and Pekko feels exposed to censorship.

Click here to see the picture that was removed.

http://happyhorsecomics.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/lesbot11.jpg

I mentioned the work of Pekko at a presentation I made on sexism within alternative spaces, at Hirvitalo this September. When Pekko heard of this she contacted me over Facebook, and asked me for more information about it. I sent her a link to “What to do?” where there’s some sort of description of what was discussed. She didn’t like that I called the material she made, sexist and gay bashing and responded by making a post on her blog called “Nazi Lesbians from Outer Space” with my picture under the title plus a sentence encouraging everybody to get a “good laugh” and then a link to the “What to do?” page.

Click here to see the “What to do?” page.

https://sosiaalikeskus.wordpress.com/h-e-l-p/

Click here to see the “Nazi Lesbians from Outer Space” blog post.

http://happyhorsecomics.wordpress.com/2009/09/28/nazi-lesbians-from-outer-space/

Here’s the discussion that followed on Facebook. (To be continued..?)

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