Madness – life, life (Magyar, sexism, nationalism, racism, male violence)

by Cunt Incognita (Pina in Budapest)


In the picture above you can see both the current land that some Hungarian nationalists feel the necessity to defend – the area marked with a red line – as well as the outlines known to the majority of the population by now, since it’s commonly used on sweaters and maps and stickers – Big Hungary. A kingdom (looking like a brain) lost.

The madness has no boundaries.

I met again with the p-collective here in Budapest. It’s the third time I’m in contact with them. The fun thing is that there’s been a clear process going on within the group.

It started by one man making an announcement on the internet, looking for women with small children who would be interested in getting some sort of community together. The man had a flat that she offered to these women for a while. For some time the place was open for anyone interested in staying there.

During the times I’ve met with the people in the group, there’s been talk about how to raise children. Forms of living. Community building. And a large amount of how to relate to sexuality and social relations. This time there was a clear split in the group. The man who initiated the group, plus another man, have a (clearly insane) creative connection going on with each other. They were openly saying that the flat was a laboratory for the ideas they had. They wanted to, and did lift off the toilet-bathroom door, as well as tried to convince the women in the group not only of the benefits of free love, but also tried to guilt-trip them into to sharing it “equally” with the men in the group, especially the two men, had the idea of that any woman interested in either one of them should be able to share the same amount of intimacy with the other – all in the name of equality. They were expressing that their sexual frustration was “oppressing” them as men, and that women somehow were responsible for this “male oppression”. So now the two men are by themselves, trying to find poor women with disabilities to join their project.

The rest of the group is developing and expanding in their own way. A few of them being in regular contact with each other, thinking of finding a communal living space. One woman would like to live with the collective 3 days a week, in the same way she does now when staying over at the flat of one of the women, that is now currently in open use for the rest of the group. There are also persons choosing to interact more sporadically with the rest.

The cool thing about this process is that people have been very open and clear about what they want. The split came naturally by two members trying to impose their wishes on the rest. The rest of the group is a mix of very different individuals from different social backgrounds (this is also being discussed – how to share and/or relate to money). They co-ordinate over a mailing list, and are also in contact with each other over the phone, meeting up in different spaces (at the homes, spread out in the different areas of the city). As well as visiting eco-villages, and other places together. The discussions are endless and open. A form of organic consensus. There’s no fear of expressing differences. There’s an air of acceptance in the group.

When meeting up with a few persons from the collective in the suburbs of Budapest, we came across a group of about 20 men practicing marching in the parking lot. I went to talk with a man who was standing next to them, watching. We managed to have some conversation in my broken school german. I asked her what was going on, and she confirmed what I already thought, that this was the Hungarian guard [a paramilitary association (of the extreme-right party Jobbik), banned and declared illegal some weeks ago] walking back and forth turning left and right, right next to a playground in the quiet neighborhood.

The nationalism came on strong in a statement that went something like “This is the Hungarian guard, not Nazi and and racist as claimed by the Jewish media. It’s for the people of Hungary.” [She was correcting her language saying that it’s probably better to say “zionist” instead of “jewish”] I was asking why they were practicing marching if they’re not racist and wish no harm, and then she was pointing at the commonly seen silhouette of Big Hungary on the sleeve of one of the marchers [they were looking really funny, being obvious beginners, one man with a big smile on her face, spinning in the wrong directions when turning around. Others with sullen, serious faces] She was starting to ask me about the area of Hungary. If I knew how large it used to be, and how small it is now.

The guys in the parking lot were dressed casual in heavy-metal t-shirts and regular clothes. But this is what the Extreme Right look like when they’re not practicing:

The Hungarian Guard. Dressed to kill.

The Hungarian Guard. Men dressed to kill. Banned but still marching for a Big Hungary.

The well developed website of the extreme right:

On the site you can click on tabs with categories as “Cigánybűnözés” – Gypsy Crime and “Zsidóbűnözés” – Jewish Crime and “Antimagyarizmus” – Anti-Hungarianism. Unfortunately the people creating the site have not made it possible for people to post comments on it…

The Hungarian Guard was founded in 2007 with 56 persons swearing an oath of loyalty to Hungary. Since then the numbers have gone up to some thousands, with many more supporting them. Members have been involved in attacks on the Roma population. [Roma are about 800 000 out of a total population of about 10 million in Hungary.]

We didn’t finish the discussion because the woman we were waiting for had arrived. And it was clear that the talk would lead nowhere. I was trying to point out that I disagreed with what was being said. Another woman took a more aggressive approach which led to comments about “Jews” and “Atheists”.

I really don’t know how to react to this on an emotional level. Cause the madness expressed by that man, is just as mad as the sexism that I encounter everywhere (television, images, porn and sex shops, massage parlors, people around me with their behaviors and words). It’s just as mad. And in a sense, just as much a part of the same patriarchal system that refuses discussion, but instead is preparing for marching and combat in the same way as the male-rage Anti-fa and Black Block. Male macho against male macho. Nothing that would lead to a change. War and exclusion. The ones who justify the objectification of another human being (Nazi, Hippie, Roma, Anti-fa — Woman) and express hatred and aggression against members of these groups through physical violence.

Or in some cases the more “soft” machos who try to impose their reality and projections on certain groups – in this case women – as the two men from the p-collective, or — Dani. Coincidently these men are now in co-operation with one another. Planning on meeting up in the country side to have some talks about life and how to live it.

Yesterday I had a talk with a friend of Dani’s. A man that was saying that it’s strange that there’s co-operation with one of the men from the p-collective since the man has had sexually abusive behavior towards one of the women in “our” circles. I was tiredly pointing out that once again there was this easy split made between “the good” and “the bad men”. Talking about Dani’s sexually abusive behavior. And her way of relating to women in intimate relations. How badly messed up a person must be if she doesn’t remember that a person she’s been intimate with for three years, has her front teeth a bit further back than the rest. (These are the things that make me feel like I’m losing grip on reality. And these are the things that make me understand how severely damaging it has been to be around Dani). I talked with the friend of how degrading it feels like, that Dani’s not open to talk through my negative experiences with her. That Dani is no different than the other guy. They both have immunity. Both of them come with different realities, serving many different stories and excuses when it comes to their own abusive behavior. Both of them feel sorry for themselves in relation to the women that they’ve hurt. And: They don’t need to talk about these things. These problems are considered to be “private” and not “collective” matters. And they function well together. Not caring to ever bring these issues up in their talks on Life and How we should live it. The oppression of women and their part in it is a side-dish that can be brought in whenever they feel like it. If they don’t, there’s collective support in skipping it. They decide when the main dish gets on the table and what it is (Mostly some general anti-fascism, being against Nazis). Desert – the “extra” topics concerning oppression (the fascist politics) within, get some token space whenever it suits their needs. A woman like myself, who is fighting for existing in the same spheres is considered to be “over-reacting” “aggressive” “abnormal”. Too “accusing”. Too “personal”. Disturbing the peace by talking about my hurt openly, and expecting to be treated with respect. Expecting to be heard out, and when not – acting out.

Yesterday at the common flat I met a really nice woman from abroad, with whom I could share perspective on the lack of self-reflection within the scene and lack of open and regular discussions on what we see and what we want to change in our immediate surroundings (for instance: how many men are doing the dishes, clean the toilet – and who?) And: If someone says there’s a problem with sexism – Hear them out! She said she couldn’t see herself be a part of a social project where there weren’t regular collective space created for reflection on the roles that we take, and how to break with them.

It felt really good to be able to share the madness of the current conflicts that I’m wrapped up in with her, in a way that felt “normal”. A level of self-reflection and awareness that is necessary for me to feel that I can express myself without getting into serious misinterpretations.

We talked about the usual things, of how to address the problems. How to deal with them. How to name them. She was for using other [less triggering] words than ‘sexism’ as for instance ‘dis-respect’. When I showed her my own stand – at this occasion written on the shirt I’m wearing at the moment: “Feminist hurt by sexism”. She said it was “cute”. 🙂 Talking with her really felt like a breathing hole in the severely unaware situation I’m in at the moment.

I feel lost. In search of something I don’t believe in. A place of acceptance. Where I wouldn’t always have to defend and prove my position, and stand my ground in order not to be pushed into non-existence. Sexism is real. Sexism hurts. I’m a feminist hurt by sexism.


8 Responses

  1. You seem to be an anti-Hungarian rascist! Why Gipsies, Jews but Hungarians can fight for the rights of their national minorities. Learn some history. It will be good for you.

    • by Milla

      In what way am I being an anti-Hungarian racist?
      What kind of rights are you talking about?

      What kind of rights are you fighting for? How?

      (not understanding what you mean. so it would be cool if you could answer)

  2. Did hear about the Versailles-Trianon Peace Diktat, which placed 1/3 of ethnic Hungarians outside the new bounderies (red line on the map, you are exhibiting)? Do you know that those ethnic Hungarians are submitted to cultural genocide in Serbia (Milosevitch and now), Romania (Ceausescu and now) and in Slovakia? Very recent low forbids the use of Hungarian language between Hungarians in Slovakia. The Guard, you refer, is a response to the persecution in those countries, and a response to the defamation perpetrade by leftish Hungarian media against Hungarians. By the way, do you know that Hungary, rounded by enemies, was able to save 300000 of her Jewish population despite nazi invasion? Of course, Netherlands were more effective in saving Jews, but they have Great Britain behind them, not Serbs and Rumanians (as these are enemies of Hungary because the territories given to them in Trianon). Read Montgomery´s “Hungary – the unwilling satelite”, written by an American to understand something about Hungarians.

    • by Milla

      hello Tibor,

      I don’t really know how to respond. Because of not having enough knowledge about the different numbers and statements that you present.

      If someone more informed would like to engage in discussion on this topic

      — what is/was hungary ?

      — what is a good way of resolving the discrimination faced by hungarian speaking minorities in neighboring countries ? (the groupings of hungarian speaking people placed outside the boarders of hungary when a bunch of bearded guys were playing weird games of ruling the world — speaking and drawing lines on maps in 1920 — i don’t know how many they were. but i’m sure it wasn’t a consensus decision. and that always leads to more conflict… when will we ever learn…?)

      — what did hungary’s (at first?) co-operation / relation with italy and germany look like during the second world war. how did hungary relate to nazi ideology — fascism ? (then and now?)

      this would be interesting for me to know more about. maybe from a different perspective than the one presented by Tibor. (i guess i’m curious about understanding and getting to know a “leftist” perspective) It would be nice see this type of discussion develop further.

      Otherwise. Just wondering about this:

      Tibor, you said:
      “The Guard, you refer, is a response to the persecution in those countries, and a response to the defamation perpetrade by leftish Hungarian media against Hungarians.”

      Could you give examples to me (as a foreigner just having brief visits and encounters with what’s going on in Hungary starting this year) — could you give examples of what you think is defamation of hungarians by the leftist media in hungary? (i’m really curious. i would really like to know more about this.)

      And: If you have any questions to me. Or any other form of response. Just go ahead and ask and express yourself.

      • Hi, Milla:
        As I suggested to you, if you want to know more about Central Europe, you can read Montgomery´s book (an American, not Hungarian). You can read also the book By Yves de Daruvar (a Hungarian-French author): Peace to end peace and The destine dramatique de la Hongrie. Unhappily, there was a competition between Rumanians, Croats, Slovaks, Hungarians for the favors of Hitler, because all they thought that they could keep the territories they have gain by means of the so called Peace Treatises (Rumanians, Slovaks, Croats) or have them back (Hungarians).
        As an example of they leftish media against Hungarians, I will remember the case of the Tilos Rádio, in which in a December 24th´s evening a speaker declared: I would like to kill all the Christians. The SzDSz party (Alliance of the Free Democrats) was against any prosecution of Tilos and the speaker, because, for it free manifestation of opinion cannot be punished. Some Hungarians identify the SzDSZ as the preferred political party of “liberal” Jews. I am sure that such kind of incidents work for hatred between people. Other manifestations you could read in the newspapers. Since I do not leave in Hungary, I did not keep them.
        Of course, I defend hatred neither against Roma, Jews, nor against Hungarians or other people. But I am able to interpret and understand social phenomena – and I do not appreciate oversimplified explanations.

        Best regards


  3. Please, read “law” instead “low”.

  4. The Versailles-Trianon Peace “Treaty” left about:
    4 000 000 Hungarians in “Great” Rumania (in Transylvania)
    1 700 000 in Czeh-Slovakia
    500 000 in “Great” Serbia (later Yugoslav Kingdom)
    50 000 in Burgerland
    and 7 000 000 within the new borders of Hungary.
    This is what many Hungarians call the Hungarian Holocaust.
    (The numbers are rounded ones, if you want the exact numbers, I can look for them).

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