Proposal (can consensus be reached?)

by Milla

Proposal does not mean “marriage”. Just wanting to make that clear. We were insane and talking about whatever forms would make it possible for us to be close, but this doesn’t matter anymore. (It’s so strange. Not being wanted, and not being understood. I really don’t understand why we didn’t get to know each other. Like. Sexism. How come people stick with it. ?? I don’t get it.) [reality show… drunken note made July 15. 2009. I guess added in case Dani would read this, so that there’s no weirdness going on. Cause there’s been enough and plenty of that (weird-o-ness) already.]

Hirvitalo in Tampere, Finland.

Hirvitalo in Tampere, Finland.

During Musta Pispala I’ve been dealing with conflict regarding violence within intimate relations, passing important knowledge on to my sisters ((a), (k)) and brother (Dani). Crying. Recovering from trauma. Doing 2 workshops at the art&culture-focused social centre Hirvitalo (Moose House) on Consensus (badly prepared… okay improvised…) and Theatre of the Oppressed. Having interesting talks with another feminist facing exclusion from the anarchist paper called Väärinajattelija (Wrong Thinker) for giving useful criticism on the dictatorial ways of Jukka to handle the paper. Apparently it was wrong of her to think that she could question authority…

And a special thanks to Rittis for reaching out, soothing my pain and sharing of yourself so givingly. I will never forget your support and how amazing you are. The crying and sharing and caring and Fighting! Resistance! we did during my stay at your place before coming to Tampere, was an incredibly inspiring time for me. A proof that community can exist. A proof that love can (and should!) heal and not harm. Power to you sister! We’ll meet again for sure. ❤

After desperately trying to convince — beg — pressure Dani into having a meeting to end this weird love affair we’ve been having, since I couldn’t stand living with the pain caused by her evasive vague statements, male oppression techniques, and un-willingness to confront what’s been going on between us in the middle of the craziness of all the external oppression expressed from the persons around us (some of which Dani is intimately involved with). She wouldn’t open up to talk about love in relation to us, instead she was easily sidetracking the subject by talking about other love relations, whenever I tried to speak of it.

She told me about (a), a new love interest. They had met in Vilnius, and Dani had had a nice time with her. Dani had decided to come to Tampere, Finland to continue checking out the squatting / alternative scene here, and also to meet with (a) and (k) that she had met before.

She was suggesting that we could meet. That I could make an info-event about the conflict in Helsinki with the social centre (a super good suggestion! but I ended up making a workshop on Consensus and another on Theatre of the Oppressed). She tossed up the idea of having some form of public conflict resolution event, where we could talk through some of the concerns I was having about her behavior.

I was going back and forth with my feelings of what to do. I didn’t feel safe with Dani. I felt manipulated by her vagueness and evasiveness, and still the lingering promise of love and intimacy somewhere in the mix of it all.

She said that she needed a break, and that her developing an intimate relation with (a) would have “good effects on our relation.” That we should meet up and talk about my concerns “later”.

When I finally expressed that I just couldn’t take the dys-communication whenever the topics of oppression and love within our intimate relation was brought up, and in angered desperation expressed that I wanted to meet up in order to break off the relations, she told me that it wasn’t a good idea to meet (I had said that she could have (a) there at the meeting comforting her – I had expressed before that I wouldn’t feel comfortable with the idea of seeing Dani ravelling in self-pity and a loving woman there to soothe her in her oppressive behavior, but if this is what it would take to get a meeting… – the idea of this got her completely paranoid and determined not to meet with me, because it wouldn’t be “good for her mental health”. What’s good for the women around her, and our mental health is still not a priority for her).

It’s confusing going through so many emotions. Taking time to understand what is happening both outside and within. The love I know I have for Dani is still something I need to explore, and there’s curiousity in me understanding the power relations within that, to understand where I get tangled up in abusive patterns on my part. How to break free, and what can be learned in order to not confuse “dominancy” with love.

Dani didn’t want to meet up. But I managed to push through a meeting. I contacted (a) and (k) through Facebook, and I put pressure on Dani through Facebook and the blog in order for her to face up to her violent ways and not just escape into the caring arms of a woman in need of love just as much as her. A love that is equal not only in words but in actions. Cause all else ends up in “terrible tragedy” (as Dani herself had put it, when expressing some feelings about the development of the relation between her and I).

This is a letter I sent to Dani and (v) – a woman in Budapest with a strong feminist background who offered to facilitate a meeting between us, when I had asked her to put pressure on Dani to meet up, after Dani had stated that she wouldn’t be open for dialogue with me, during her stay with (a) and (k) in Tampere.

The letter is written the day after the meetings with Dani, (k) and (a). (Starting with a separate meeting with (k) and (a) in the evening when I arrived to Tampere — continuing with a meeting including Dani the following day).

After this letter, comes the short reply on possible dates for meeting written by (v).

hello dani (most people call you that, it’s easy, so why not, i figure)

and (v)

there’s been a meeting in tampere with (k), (a), dani
(a) understood that there was domination and violence in dani’s behavior,
dani was continuously using domination in the meeting,
i tried to point some of it out.

most of it wasn’t recognized by dani as such.
also that (a) figures that dani has started their relation by lying to her
not telling anything about other intimate relations
and also not telling her about the fact that she has abusive and
violent behavior in intimate relations
(when (a) asked dani why i had been contacting her over internet, dani
was saying that she had no clue what i was talking about)

this being the current situation. i didn’t really see any progress in dani’s behavior
and there was little recognition to her being violent towards me,
and no empathy with the situation i was in, being there informing (k), (a), dani
about the danger of not taking this seriously.

so she didn’t recognize sexism in not feeling empathy with neither (a)
nor me when we were speaking about harm done to us by her behavior
((a) about the lying, me about the general abuse towards both myself
and other women), instead she prefered talking about different
realities (this sounding as a neutral statement on her side to my ears
– so in her reality she didn’t harm and she didn’t lie).

dunno. i’m tired. this feels like bla bla.

i told dani that i’m not interested in working more her sexism unless
there would be an interest in her of having an intimate relation with

i’ve changed my mind on the matter. i figured i could still develop
from having a meeting (even without progress on dani’s side), i
noticed i still have things to discover within myself. so i think i
could benefit from a facilitated meeting in budapest.

the suggested date does not suit me.

i will be at a LoveKills festival in Romania 27july–2aug

i could come by budapest on my way back. sometime after Aug 4th. i
need to be back in finland Aug 20.

would you (v) be able to meet in aug?

a meeting would be a really cool thing for me. i still feel there’s
been a lot of things unprocessed in this encounter / love connection /
abusive relation / creative exchange. i would like to understand
better what went on.


(v)’s reply

Hi Milla, hi Dani,
It makes me sad to hear that there’s no improvement just denial and excuses (as usual…).
I will be back to Budapest n the 12th august, and I have a meeting on 17, 18, 19 whole days. On the 20th I work from 11 to 15 oclock. Otherwise I’m free so you can choose a date.
See you


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